170 replies to this topic

[Danica Davison]

unfortunately that is absolutely meaningless in Sm.

 

Oh yeah? well .... You're absolutely meaningless in SM (in 2018) 

[Samuel J]

Oh yeah? well .... You're absolutely meaningless in SM (in 2018) 

 

So just to derail this thread a little further, what tire is it then? BFG Rivals, RS4 or Starspecs? Give me your secrets gypsy.

[Tom Hampton]

^Sadly Tom, i'm pretty sure those days are gone.

Yeah. I know. Just pointing out that I am voting with my wallet. I'm sure I'm not alone. Both orgs are losing money to sm crossover....maybe only in sm, so maybe it doesn't matter.

I don't expect the scca to care...Todd's response seems in line with that belief. This thread, started by xav, seems to indicate that maybe nasa does..

Anyway, I started in nasa, so that's where I will stay until they screw up their product enough to make me change.

[OrangeCrush86]

The SM7 is a 'treadless' DOT rated tire. Much different than a true Hoosier racing slick.

 

Multiple people have now pointed this out. I know it's a DOT radial... it wasn't meant to be taken literally, but maybe we can make shaved Blizzaks the new spec tire.

[FTodaro]

Yeah. I know. Just pointing out that I am voting with my wallet. I'm sure I'm not alone. Both orgs are losing money to sm crossover....maybe only in sm, so maybe it doesn't matter.

I don't expect the scca to care...Todd's response seems in line with that belief. This thread, started by xav, seems to indicate that maybe nasa does..

Anyway, I started in nasa, so that's where I will stay until they screw up their product enough to make me change.

Just my Opinion Tom but if your waiting for both groups to get back to using the same tire, its a slim chance, imo. I think that both groups value the relationship they have with the tire vendors. NASA likes the relationship with Toyo. SCCA values the service that Hoosier provides.

 

Before we went to a spec tire in our region, under the open tires rules we use to run the BFG G Force Tire. It was fast and you got lots of HC out of it.

[Tom Hampton]

Frank. As I said in the quoted, I do understand that. I'm not waiting per se. I'm just not going to buy enough wheels and tires to run both groups. I'll just sit out when the local nasa race doesn't fit my life schedule instead of looking to see what the scca might be doing.

The issue with the h2o make the choice even easier. It's rains often enough...I can switch to my ra1s without worrying about burning off a set. I need the practice and enjoy driving in the rain, but not at the expense of a set of rains.

[Steve Scheifler]

I have nothing against Hoosier/Conti but I’ve never understood all the fawning over them or the talk of “support”. Their business is (was) race tires. It wasn’t sideline or a marketing ploy, it’s all they did. They had retailers at most races before SM and when we were all on Toyos, and they’ll still be there if we change again. It’s what they do. They negotiate a deal which they fully expect will be more profitable than not making the deal, like any company. Beyond selling tires and charging $25 each for M&B, remind me again what support you are getting?? I don’t know what they would tell you today, but as recently as a few years ago when asked for advice on tire pressures the answer was higher than anyone runs. No offense, but what exactly is that worth? So-called contingencies in a spec class are, and always have been, a tax on the poor to subsidize the rich. Real contingency programs are to get your business in a competitive market. Here they are part of the contract and cost Hoosier NOTHING. That hardly qualifies as “support” or “service”. I don’t know what if anything the club gets from the deal but it absolutely should be public knowledge.

What exactly is all this other support I’ve been hearing about for years?

[Miamirice]

I race in nasa. I would like to cross over. Mostly to allow more scheduling choices. But, I'm not going to do that until the orgs are on the same tire. I'm not doubling down on tires and wheels simply for scheduling convenience.

X2

[Johnny D]

So no disrespect and I’ll probably say it wrong, but how do you feel SCCA appears to made the Hoosier deal that was best for the club with the kick back and not necessarily best for the class. Those who like the tire and can afford it and amount of hc’s you get, I’d assume doesn’t have an issue. But what about everyone else??

J~

[FTodaro]

I have nothing against Hoosier/Conti but I’ve never understood all the fawning over them or the talk of “support”. Their business is (was) race tires. It wasn’t sideline or a marketing ploy, it’s all they did. They had retailers at most races before SM and when we were all on Toyos, and they’ll still be there if we change again. It’s what they do. They negotiate a deal which they fully expect will be more profitable than not making the deal, like any company. Beyond selling tires and charging $25 each for M&B, remind me again what support you are getting?? I don’t know what they would tell you today, but as recently as a few years ago when asked for advice on tire pressures the answer was higher than anyone runs. No offense, but what exactly is that worth? So-called contingencies in a spec class are, and always have been, a tax on the poor to subsidize the rich. Real contingency programs are to get your business in a competitive market. Here they are part of the contract and cost Hoosier NOTHING. That hardly qualifies as “support” or “service”. I don’t know what if anything the club gets from the deal but it absolutely should be public knowledge.

What exactly is all this other support I’ve been hearing about for years?

The Hoosier guys have always been there if you need them. I used to also help with organization of PCA events, they would put on Tire talk meetings and help you with Set up of their tire, adjust tire problems. Having someone at the track is helpful when needed.

 

I also like their system of getting paid on the contingency, its easier than the Toyo system with NASA where you get a coupon that you have to go find a vendor who will honor it.

[LarryKing]

Calling vendors "Hoosier guys" is a little misleading. For the most part it's independent vendors that service events and they sell multiple brands.

[Jim Drago]

So no disrespect and I’ll probably say it wrong, but how do you feel SCCA appears to made the Hoosier deal that was best for the club with the kick back and not necessarily best for the class. Those who like the tire and can afford it and amount of hc’s you get, I’d assume doesn’t have an issue. But what about everyone else??

J~

I really can't see anyone who would say they are happy running Hoosiers for 2-3 sessions and buying two plus sets of stickers a weekend, I certainly don't enjoy adding an additional $1000 or more per weekend on tires, certainly not if I don't need to.  I appreciate all that Hoosier has helped me over the years, but we need to address this issue and get more usable cycles or we need to switch tires. What we have right now is not working well for the class. IMO, if Toyo came up with a similar program to the Super tour program in SCCA where it had bigger races or a championship where it pulled in the top drivers... I think SM in SCCA could be in trouble within a few years and Toyo does not seem to be taking this lightly and apparently are not afraid to through some money at our class.

Jim

[Danica Davison]

So just to derail this thread a little further, what tire is it then? BFG Rivals, RS4 or Starspecs? Give me your secrets gypsy.

 

Haha my bad, bb. 

 

We used the BFG Rivals for both Sebring and Daytona on one set and didn't change, and they were perfectly fine. We then tried the Rival S, which is softer, and the left side tires had nothing left after 6 hours at Sebring .. so I would stay away from the Rival S. 

 

Since the Rivals are pretty bad in the rain, we recently decided to change to the RS4 which we won Sebring with in September, used them again New Years at Sebring but the motor blew up in 45 min, so I have no answer for if it can last two races at Sebring . But, we will be at Daytona with the same set in a couple of weeks, and I will let you know how they do. They still had plenty of life left after 14 hours at Sebring.

 

We have yet to try the Direzzas, but I believe that is what Buras and Pardus' teams are running. Not sure if they are getting two races out of theirs, but maybe Preston can comment if he knows (since I see him reading this right now). 

[Ron Alan]

I have nothing against Hoosier/Conti but I’ve never understood all the fawning over them or the talk of “support”. Their business is (was) race tires. It wasn’t sideline or a marketing ploy, it’s all they did. They had retailers at most races before SM and when we were all on Toyos, and they’ll still be there if we change again. It’s what they do. They negotiate a deal which they fully expect will be more profitable than not making the deal, like any company. Beyond selling tires and charging $25 each for M&B, remind me again what support you are getting?? I don’t know what they would tell you today, but as recently as a few years ago when asked for advice on tire pressures the answer was higher than anyone runs. No offense, but what exactly is that worth? So-called contingencies in a spec class are, and always have been, a tax on the poor to subsidize the rich. Real contingency programs are to get your business in a competitive market. Here they are part of the contract and cost Hoosier NOTHING. That hardly qualifies as “support” or “service”. I don’t know what if anything the club gets from the deal but it absolutely should be public knowledge.

What exactly is all this other support I’ve been hearing about for years?

Well said as usual Steve! And in different words Jim is right there! 

 

We might be just a little early in this discussion but I sincerely hope the SMAC and Hoosier have been in meaningful development talks!

I'm sure Hoosier is aware we(SCCA members) have an extremely reasonable and well developed option In the Toyo RR. There are already regions that have gone away from the national tire at membership request and run Toyo...and are very happy! Only downside at the moment is Toyo isn't showing the love to SCCA in the way of Contingency for these regions that I'm aware of.

 

As pointed out, Hoosier's model has always been racing. If they dont show up at the track they dont sell tires. Its not like you can walk into a Hoosier store in every town to pick-up your tires! Most have a tire vendor they can order and pick up TOYO tires within 15 minutes of there home! I think Hoosier has its work cut out...the option is proven and a rule change away from becoming reality! 

[LarryKing]

 

If they dont show up at the track they dont sell tires.

Never bought a Hoosier, or a Toyo, at the track. I place orders online and have them shipped to my house. Use local guy to mount balance.

[tylerbrown]

Haha my bad, bb. 

 

We used the BFG Rivals for both Sebring and Daytona on one set and didn't change, and they were perfectly fine. We then tried the Rival S, which is softer, and the left side tires had nothing left after 6 hours at Sebring .. so I would stay away from the Rival S. 

 

Since the Rivals are pretty bad in the rain, we recently decided to change to the RS4 which we won Sebring with in September, used them again New Years at Sebring but the motor blew up in 45 min, so I have no answer for if it can last two races at Sebring . But, we will be at Daytona with the same set in a couple of weeks, and I will let you know how they do. They still had plenty of life left after 14 hours at Sebring.

 

We have yet to try the Direzzas, but I believe that is what Buras and Pardus' teams are running. Not sure if they are getting two races out of theirs, but maybe Preston can comment if he knows (since I see him reading this right now). 

 

We have used the Dunlop Direzza ZII for the Champcar Double 8 Hour Enduro at Road America and the tire held up fine for all 16 hours, and after it still looks good and we will most likely use it again at the next one. 

 

It did run 8 hours in the rain, but the grip in the wet was incredible. Out of 70 cars we were the fourth fastest on track with the little 1.6 Miata. Nothing makes you feel like a hero more than passing four cars around the rim of the Carousel at RA at once, and about 10-15 cars a lap

[Johnny D]

https://www.crbscca.com/

 

J~

[BNaumann]

Never bought a Hoosier, or a Toyo, at the track. I place orders online and have them shipped to my house. Use local guy to mount balance.

Where do you get SM7s online?

[Danica Davison]

Where do you get SM7s online?

https://philstireser...op/hoosier-sm7/

[William Keeling]

Where do you get SM7s online?

Phil's Tire Service