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Poll: Spec tires (104 member(s) have cast votes)

If racing in SCCA Majors or Super Tour Series, How many new sets of SM& tires are you buying per weekend

  1. not racing in those series (34 votes [32.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.69%

  2. less than one set (7 votes [6.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.73%

  3. 1 set (39 votes [37.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  4. 2 sets (24 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  5. 3 or more sets (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

If given the choice, What tire would you chose as the Spec Tire in SM?

  1. Hoosier SM7 (23 votes [22.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.12%

  2. Toyo RR (72 votes [69.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  3. Other (9 votes [8.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.65%

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#101
Richard Astacio

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I don't really understand this debate, while I understand we want a longer lasting tire, in most track stickers or scuffs are going to be quicker regardless how many heat cycle they last. 

 

If you are at the pointy end anything over .100 of a second is going to count....so lets just say a 4 heat cycle tire only drops off .300 of a second, that can be a difference between pole or 7th place if not more in some races depends on the talent that shows up.

So those guys at the front are going to put fresher tires on regardless how many heat cycle the tire last....us mid-packs guys its not going to make that much of a difference. 

 

The only way you are going to lower the cost is by implementing a tire rule like the pros do. World Challenge you bring your tires up and they are marked.

You also get (1) extra tire to change in the event you flat spot or whatever. 


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#102
Danica Davison

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The only way you are going to lower the cost is by implementing a tire rule like the pros do. World Challenge you bring your tires up and they are marked. You also get (1) extra tire to change in the event you flat spot or whatever.

 

+1


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#103
LarryKing

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The point end usually consist of 4-5 drivers, usually the same 4-5 drivers. After them the laptime deltas raise to 0.5-1.0 seconds or more.

Must we base the tire choice on what those handfull of driver's do? Why not chose a spec tire for the rest of us who do this for fun?
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#104
Tom Sager

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I don't really understand this debate, while I understand we want a longer lasting tire, in most track stickers or scuffs are going to be quicker regardless how many heat cycle they last. 

 

If you are at the pointy end anything over .100 of a second is going to count....so lets just say a 4 heat cycle tire only drops off .300 of a second, that can be a difference between pole or 7th place if not more in some races depends on the talent that shows up.

So those guys at the front are going to put fresher tires on regardless how many heat cycle the tire last....us mid-packs guys its not going to make that much of a difference. 

 

The only way you are going to lower the cost is by implementing a tire rule like the pros do. World Challenge you bring your tires up and they are marked.

You also get (1) extra tire to change in the event you flat spot or whatever. 

 

Agree that a tire limit per event would be a positive change.  If that is done for the pro's and their budgets, it should certainly be done for us as well.  5 tires per event.  Sign me up. 


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#105
Steve Scheifler

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In your tire limit scenario, can the mere mortals filling the rest of the field get their used tires from a prior event re-marked? Can they use up what’s left of multiple old sets? See where this is hoing?

Do you really think a single spare is always sufficient? (obviously rhetorical). Who will monitor and enforce all this? If only at super tour events it doesn’t really help a lot of the class at all.

It shouldn’t require a lot of thought to realize that simply applying “pro” rules to an amateur event can be complicated and end up being bad for the average guy.
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#106
Bench Racer

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The discussion is tire budget, correct. Let's look at what potentially will work for all events and move on to a process. Add you thoughts.

 

Drivers who think they'll be in position to collect points are allowed 5 new tires per event (non modified) and shall register those 5 tires. How to register tires is for someone of a higher pay grade to figure out.

 

Drivers who don't care about points are allowed whatever Hoosier per se SM7 tires they care, new, used, shaved.

 

If a driver with unregistered tires finishes within the points, said driver gets no points, no trophy, no awards and no contingency.    


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#107
Danica Davison

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The discussion is tire budget, correct. Let's look at what potentially will work for all events and move on to a process. Add you thoughts.
 
Drivers who think they'll be in position to collect points are allowed 5 new tires per event (non modified) and shall register those 5 tires. How to register tires is for someone of a higher pay grade to figure out.
 
Drivers who don't care about points are allowed whatever Hoosier per se SM7 tires they care, new, used, shaved.
 
If a driver with unregistered tires finishes within the points, said driver gets no points, no trophy, no awards and no contingency.

 

I could get behind that. It allows guys who don't care to not register their take off tires, while keeping the front pack more "cost equal". I like it.


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#108
gerglmuff2

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as long as i can qualify and practice on scuffs. 


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#109
Steve Scheifler

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I don’t like it. It means that the upper-middle either forfeit possible rewards or always pony up for new tires. And the idea of a single spare for the weekend sounds ridiculous. Many incidents take out more than one. BTW can that “spare” be used for any reason at any time? Can it be rotated in and out of service?
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#110
LarryKing

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Anyone know where I can buy a set of Hoosier per se tires?


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#111
OrangeCrush86

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I think you guys are going a little crazy with this. Having a tire that stays consistent longer will fix all these things indirectly. You will never eliminate the advantage that a brand new tire has, but if you make the advantage small enough it will no longer be (as much of) a cost effective advantage. The Hoosiers falling off before the rubber is gone is the core issue in my opinion.

 

However it would be interesting to try a "no stickers" rule for for a race weekend. :)


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#112
Ron Alan

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I actually think most who can afford new rubber when they want would welcome a rule that is an effort to avoid the arms race! 

Forcing drivers to "MANAGE" their shit might actually improve the racing! Most flat spotted tires are caused by mistakes(sometimes others which could be addressed)so asking to replace a damaged tire or tires would come with a decent penalty. 3 spots for 1, 6 spots for 2, 12 spots for 4!

 

Just throwing out thoughts!


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#113
Danica Davison

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I don’t like it. It means that the upper-middle either forfeit possible rewards or always pony up for new tires. And the idea of a single spare for the weekend sounds ridiculous. Many incidents take out more than one. BTW can that “spare” be used for any reason at any time? Can it be rotated in and out of service?

 

Fair questions ... but I respectfully disagree with your first point. I think buying one set of stickers in a weekend is fair and expected for a Super Tour. IMO, one set is fair for an upper-middle competitor as well. Most of those guys are already buying one or more sets a weekend. I think those guys (including myself) will be happier knowing that they don't feel like they have to buy more than one set to be competitive.  I know that I am definitely using that excuse. I can only afford one set, and it is frustrating by race 2 and I am on 3rd or 4th heat cycle and my tires aren't as good as the guys I am around. 

 

In my opinion, if you don't want to either 1.) Run what you have and forfeit HST Points or 2.) Buy only one set of tires at an HST to earn points/contingency/etc ... then the Super Tour isn't for you. Run the little majors or regionals instead.  And before I am jumped on for that comment .. I am doing the same thing already. Last year was tough on the wallet running majors/HST tour/runoffs, and now I am taking a step back and running regionals for a couple years knowing I cant afford it if I want to be competitive.


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John Davison
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#114
OrangeCrush86

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If you are going to forfeit points and contingency you could just run Toyos and reduce your tire budget considerably...

 

I'm actually thinking of keeping one set of Toyos mounted just to use on practice to conserve my SM7s as I'm a Low Budget Racerâ„¢.


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#115
DrDomm

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There's no perfect solution, and the logistics at a race with 40+ competitors would be tough.  I envision a program where tires get scanned coming off the track.  That tire is now logged.  Should you come off the track on a later session, with an unlogged tire, that is a violation and will warrant a penalty (loss of time).  You flat spot or damage a tire...replace with a used tire that has already been "logged".  This basically limits you to 1 new set per Majors weekend.

 

Just an idea...I have no experience with these programs.


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#116
OrangeCrush86

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There's no perfect solution, and the logistics at a race with 40+ competitors would be tough.  I envision a program where tires get scanned coming off the track.  That tire is now logged.  Should you come off the track on a later session, with an unlogged tire, that is a violation and will warrant a penalty (loss of time).  You flat spot or damage a tire...replace with a used tire that has already been "logged".  This basically limits you to 1 new set per Majors weekend.

 

Just an idea...I have no experience with these programs.

 

Pay dstevens and myself $40k and we'll build you a tire barcoding system. :)


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#117
MPR22

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We started paying a compliance fee last year and the invasive tech went down.  I could see the SCCA charging us a tire check fee and not being able to administer.  

 

Marked tires will never happen at the club level.  Put that aside and go back to asking for more cost effective tires.  


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#118
Tom Hampton

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Pay dstevens and myself $40k and we'll build you a tire barcoding system. :)


LOL. You realize that at today's engineering rates thats about 3 weeks of wages for you two? That assumes you come up with a different source for material purchases.

So you think you can build and test and entire hardware and software system ready to be used around the country by not the most tech savvy volunteers without your direct handgolding in 3 weeks. Hmm mm....

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#119
steveracer

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And you're expecting stewards who look the other direction at egregious, blatant punts to inspect and log 160 (assuming 40 entries) tires every time we come off the track?!? 

 

Can I interest you in this new Hedge Fund I'm starting...


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#120
Ethomas

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This got silly...

Stop making new stupid rules. Everyone of us b***h about silly sm rules. There are enough. Add in some nonsense tire limit rules and compliance fees and then we can blame ourselves for stupid rules that nobody actually wants.

We just need a better tire that runs more competitive heat cycles. Hoosier is capable of providing this. Seriously 6 competitive heat cycles would be good. 1 weekend 1 class is approx. 4-6 heat cycles. Depending on how you choose to run/club schedule.
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