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B-Spec prelim's out


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#1
Steve S.

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In the prelim May Fastrack- see p.3.

http://cms.scca.com/...astrack _2_.pdf

#2
Mike Colangelo

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Thanks Steve. The Mazda2 is much lighter than all the others at 2130 lbs.

#3
wheel

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The B spec will become effective upon publication, instead of on 5/2, so that anyone wanting to run one on that weekend may do so.
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#4
Mike Colangelo

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The B spec will become effective upon publication, instead of on 5/2, so that anyone wanting to run one on that weekend may do so.
wheel


Wheel, are you building a car?

I own a Mazda2 and every time I drive it, I get this urge to turn it into a race car. I fear that my car's days of peacefully taking me to work and the local Starbucks are numbered! :lol:

#5
Steve S.

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Looked on the M'speed last night to see what they had for the 2, but didn't see anything. Was thinking I read somewhere about them doing a B-spec kit (like SM)??

Early days yet, so I'm still in watching mode.

Steve

#6
wheel

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The intention was for the manufacturers to provide a "kit" with springs, shocks and sway bars. Auto manufacturers are a bit like flying a hot air balloon. You hit the burners and eventually it starts to rise. SCCA decided, due to lots of prodding by racers who want to put these cars on the track, to go ahead and write the specs and let the manufacturers catch up. So, through the efforts of Tom Start, with the CRB, there are specifications that will take effect on publication, which should be in the next week. It should be close enough to get folks out on the tracks. Probably not spot in, in terms of equality, but the point is to build the car you want, and expect that the parity will all get sorted out in the end. This "class" has the full support of the CRB and the BOD.
wheel

#7
Protech Racing

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Rule downer; allow removal of the interior,why? I was going to do one for my Son to drive to school. I sent the CRB a letter stating that the tires should be 140TW or higher, and leave the interiors in. Drive it to the track, race, drive home. I cant believe that I am the only one that wants to drive the thing on the street.
What happened to member input?
That takes it right off of our table.
Also, the rule should state that the camber can be gained by slotting the knuckle joint , along with eccentric bolts. KISS. KISS.
Who is on the board for this car? Thanks, MM

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#8
Waco Racer

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Rule downer; allow removal of the interior,why? I was going to do one for my Son to drive to school. I sent the CRB a letter stating that the tires should be 140TW or higher, and leave the interiors in. Drive it to the track, race, drive home. I cant believe that I am the only one that wants to drive the thing on the street.
What happened to member input?
That takes it right off of our table.
Also, the rule should state that the camber can be gained by slotting the knuckle joint , along with eccentric bolts. KISS. KISS.
Who is on the board for this car? Thanks, MM


I'm interested in building one of these.

Not a bad idea on drive to the track, race, drive home, but, I wouldn't be keen on driving a car with a roll cage on the street. The proposed rule states you may remove the interior. You don't have too.

I'm more concerned on the $ amount that will be spent on shock and engine tune development.

#9
wheel

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Mike,
In response to your "why" on the interior. This whole concept was started by the manufacturers. SCCA just came on board and said that we would give these cars a place to race. SCCA will not be the only sanctioning body that gives them a place to race. When there are more of them, expect to see them race in support races at pro events. Because we were just giving them a place, the CRB did not write the rules. As things developed, and the manufacturers took a long time to finalize their handling kits, the CRB, in the form of Tom Start, just took the original rules and added a couple of suspension limitations, so that people could go out and race the cars this season. And, as Waco pointed out, you may remove the interior, but you don't have to.
wheel

#10
Mike Colangelo

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I wouldn't be keen on driving a car with a roll cage on the street.


Having driven a rally car on the street for a good number of miles, both during rally transit as well as getting groceries ( :) ), I think it's safe as long as you pad any bar that a human body part may contact in a collision. I used dual density roll bar padding liberally throughout my rally car in both the driver and co-driver (navigator) areas.

I recommend using this stuff:
http://www.safedrive...prod=BSCI-DDpad

#11
Mike Colangelo

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Wheel,

Does the interior removal include windows? I don't think it does but just thought I'd ask. I'd prefer that it does not, but that's just me. It rains 400 days a year here in Seattle, or maybe that's what it feels like.

Thanks,

The other Mike

#12
wheel

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It says. "Interiors may be removed, including seats, seat brackets, carpet carpet padding, OEM seat belts, interior trim and headliners. OEM radio and air conditioner may be removed. Heaters and all duct work must remain, except duct work that goes under seats."

There is no mention of door panels or glass. SS rules do not allow for the removal of glass.
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#13
Protech Racing

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Mazda, today, said that SCCA made the rules. The 100# of interior will be hard to keep up with. IMHO. The roll center is so high as it is.
Think of the marketing potential to drive a new to market car, to the track, race and drive it home again. My Kid would drive it, cage and all, instead of his 20yr old BMW.
I have a note to the CRB but I know that it is too late, ball is rolling down hill .
Does anyone have one started? other than the factory cars? The Honda looks good also.
If the rules are fixed soon enough, I will build the best car in the class. I will look at camber gain at the lowered ride height, # per cc ,etc. But it has to stay on the street,IMHO. MM
If you also think so, , call SCCA today!!.
http://www.crbscca.com/ . send a note please.
Thanks, MM
Ps we drove many IT cars on the street, welded diffs and all. Plenty cool and not likely to get stopped, because you are a target as soon as it's running.

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#14
Mike Colangelo

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Mike O.,

There might be more at this time, but as of last year's 25 Hours of Thunderhill (Dec 2010), there were only 3 B-Spec race cars in North America that I'm aware of. The Honda Fit car was fielded by Honda Research West and Hale Motorsports and Robert Davis Racing (the Mazdaspeed team, I guess) each fielded a Mazda2. Hopefully, once the rules get sorted we'll see a bunch being built. I suspect that most of the early builds will be Fits since used ones will be among the cheapest base platforms. Any early Mazda2 build will be 2011 models (i.e., new cars).

I've contacted Mazda Motorsports and asked some questions about their B-Spec suspension kit. The person I talked to wasn't sure about the spring rates. Does anyone here know if they're 500 lbs/in or less (i.e., legal per the SCCA rules)?

Regarding the weight issue, all I'll say is that after driving my Mazda2 on the street for close to 2000 miles, this car needs all the help it can get in terms of performance. 100 bhp should be about 90 hp at the wheels. Fits and Fiestas have 17 and 20, respectively, more bhp than the Mazda2. There is also the issue that these cars will most likely (almost assuredly, actually) be racing in combined race groups with faster cars (e.g., ITA, ITB, SSB, SSC, Spec Miatas, etc.). You'll want to make these B-Spec cars fast enough to avoid becoming rolling chicanes in mixed class race groups.

Likewise, with tires, the 25 Hours of Thunderhill B-Spec cars raced with the BF Goodrich g-Force R1 tires (tread wear rating of 40). I'd be happy with something like a Toyo RA1 (tread wear rating of 100). I see no good reason to go to a less grippy tire than that.

I don't know how realistic a race weight of 2130 lbs is for the Mazda2. I believe the Mazdaspeed B-Spec car weighed about 2250 lbs with driver and the Hale Motorsports car was 2170 with full fuel and no driver (but looks like it has a very robust roll cage). Both of those cars seemed to be pretty well stripped down, too.

I think the SCCA's preliminary rules are a very good start and applaud them for getting the ball rolling. The only thing I'd lobby for is a cold air intake.

#15
Mike Colangelo

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Here's a very informative article comparing the Honda Fit and the Mazda2 B-Spec race cars:
http://www.insidelin...c-racecars.html

#16
wheel

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On the door glass issue - Like the general SS rules, "The door window glass, window operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed to facilitate...." NASCAR style died protection that extends into the door.

wheel

#17
Randy Hale

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If you have any question on the B-spec Mazda 2 I have built two now. The first Mazda 2 has run the 13 hour, 25 hour, 12 hour NJMP, Mount Washington Hill Climb, Rallycross in the snow, Auto X, and test day at Mazda Raceway last weekend. It still has the original drive line and parts. For the 25 hour we didn't change brake pads. At the 13 hour we didn't change pads or tires.

Randy Hale
Hale Motorsports




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