51 replies to this topic

[Jim Boemler]

I'd worry about anybody who even knew where to find that graphic!

[Bench Racer]

I'd worry about anybody who even knew where to find that graphic!

Occupation:Knucklehead

LocationVegas Baby

Do you have any further questions?

[dstevens]

Y'all ain't never heard of no Google Images?...

[Tom Hampton]

Y'all ain't never heard of no Google Images?...

You can tell us that you "just found it", but that doesn't mean we're gonna believe you.

[Muda]

SO, your saying use the 99 rules change process.

Exactly!!!

[AW33COM]

I'd worry about anybody who even knew where to find that graphic!

- Funny. Living in Manhattan made the image less shocking

The reason the front hubs require such tender care is that the outer races are machined into the hub, then case hardened.

- Yes, I was shocked when I saw that. To be honest I have never seen hubs like that.

I vote that we are allowed to upgrade to roller bearings.

- Makes sense if possible. There are few other things I found that would make Spec Miata cheaper:
Miata Roadster makes upper control arm ball joints (V8 roadsters) that can work as a replacement for the original ones without buying new a-arms.

In my opinion you should deal with those who support our class

- I will never agree with that one. I do respect their help, but buying something expensive from someone "just because" makes little sense to me. How do you know the $125 hubs from Mazda (Ford ---> China) are better than American hubs for $35? Did you see the production spec/metal used/process/etc? It's not like this is the 80/90 and things of great quality are produced in Japan/Germany. What I'm trying to say is that knowing few things about production of items in this world I have a feeling both hubs are identical. As a matter of fact I can bet my Miata the cost of production of the American and Mazda hubs is identical. That's how things are produced these days. Trust me.

Having said that I do like to buy from Dave.

[dstevens]

Where are you getting $35 hubs? From the auto parts stores around here they are between $100 and $200. Even at Rock Auto they are $90-$130. The factory deal at MSM is a pretty good price.

[AW33COM]

Where are you getting $35 hubs? From the auto parts stores around here they are between $100 and $200. Even at Rock Auto they are $90-$130. The factory deal at MSM is a pretty good price.

eBay had fronts (one) for $33 shipped. RockAuto has rear for $20.99 FOB.

Ebay Hub Bastard raised a price a bit to $33.91

[Muda]

I'll bet you a tube of 101 there ain't no such thing as an American hub.

[AW33COM]

I'll bet you a tube of 101 there ain't no such thing as an American hub.

- absolutely correct. By American I meant a non Mazda brand. All hubs are made in the east. Same spec, same production line, possibly same company.

[dstevens]

- absolutely correct. By American I meant a non Mazda brand. All hubs are made in the east. Same spec, same production line, possibly same company.

There are several contractors in Mexico that build new and rebuilt parts. It's not the same spec. The difference in price is likely down to the seals and bearings. Quality bearings and seals alone will cost more than 30 bucks. That is one of the reasons it's cheaper. If the one you were having issues with is the $35 eBay hub, that's a pretty good indication of the problem there.

[KentCarter]

- absolutely correct. By American I meant a non Mazda brand. All hubs are made in the east. Same spec, same production line, possibly same company.

If you believe that, you haven't been doing business in China. You rarely get what you spec when you do business in China. I'll give you an example from my own business. We were buying a certain urethane tubing that had to have an exact composition/durometer, a very precise ID and a somewhat exact OD. In a 100m roll, we'd often find a splice in the middle and 10 or 20m of a lower grade tubing. Because this was going into an implanted medical device, this led to a regulatory hell where we had to pass each piece over a mandrel/jig to confirm its diameter before using it. No matter what we did, we continued to get out of spec tubing from suppliers in China. We even offered to pay more if it would be 100% in spec, but they were just insulted at the insinuation that they were ripping us off.

The same thing happens in bearings from China, I'm sure. The question is: where does Mazda get their bearings? Do they QC them more than the repackager at RockAuto? Do bearings really matter anyway??

[Keith Novak]

It's not necessarily true that other parts aren't made to the same spec or a better one. The issue is you have no idea what spec they were written to, whether they actually follow it, and that the QC is in place to know that. It's a crap shoot. Some of the extra money is in the manufacturing processes and materials (which can be a very big deal in bearings) and some of the money is in validating the parts meet the spec and that the supplier is reputable and reliable.

I've bought plenty of cheap parts and seen quality all over the map. With Mazda parts, I know what I'm getting works with my car, it's a quality part, when it will show up at my doorstep, and that I got a good price. I go more and more with MS for those reasons.

[FTodaro]

Rear bearing question. If you replace them annually, can you disassemble the bearing to repack it with red line or do you have to leave it as is?

[john23]

is redline grease the only grease to use repacking bearings or can you use amsoil synthetic grease

[davew]

In my experience. Stay away from the cheap bearings. One will be great, the next goes bad in one day.

I have never had an issue with genuine Mazda bearings.

On the rears, stay away from Timkin bearings. I tried a batch of 10. Most failed within 2 days. I tossed 2 brand new ones in the scrap bin. They where THAT bad!!!

Redline CV2 is a great grease and very commonly used. So is Mobil 1 synthetic. I have been using Schaeffer grease with excellent results for several years.

For oem front bearings, the seals are now available.

My advise, any time the car runs in the rain, repack before the next event.

Dave

[CARacer]

I've had RX-7's for years and now a Miata for 5 months, so I'm well acquainted with Mazda's penchant for shoddy engineering and cheap materials, but even I am astounded at what I'm reading in this thread. I need to repack the HUBS every 4 weekends (or after a SINGLE wet day) or they will fail and wheels will come off? You've got to be kidding me.

[KentCarter]

I've had RX-7's for years and now a Miata for 5 months, so I'm well acquainted with Mazda's penchant for shoddy engineering and cheap materials, but even I am astounded at what I'm reading in this thread. I need to repack the HUBS every 4 weekends (or after a SINGLE wet day) or they will fail and wheels will come off? You've got to be kidding me.

We are talking about racing here, not going for a Starbucks on sunny days.

[Jim Boemler]

Many of my race weekends include rain, and I've had better luck with hubs than the people who spend their weekdays packing hubs. The set of hubs that failed earliest for me was a pair bought from one of the shops that does super-whiz-bang stuff to them. The longest-lasting (several years) were straight from the factory.

BTW, if you feel that Mazda as a "penchant for shoddy engineering and cheap materials", why don't you go race something higher-rent, maybe a Jaguar?

[Keith Novak]

They won't necessarily fail. I did 20 races this year, with something like 14 practice qual and race sessions in seriously heavy rain, on a set of new Mazda hubs rebuilt with Redline grease preseason. They're still very very nice. The original untouched hubs I raced on before that still had pretty good looking grease but didn't spin nearly as well as when rebuilt with better grease.

One thing I would caution against though is over-torquing the big hub nut. That will add too much preload to the bearings and can dramatically shorten their lifespan.

When I used to prep super high end racing bicycles for elite racers, I learned you had to be very careful with the preload on the BB style bearing sets. Over tighten the outside race aka the cone, and with excellent bearings and super slippery grease the bearings will still spin like a dream. You will feel no additional drag when brand spanking new. Pound on the bearings and abuse them for a while and the BBs will absolutely destroy the races. The prescribed torque is 150 ft-lbs if I remember right. Most 1/2" torque wrenches don't go that high so people guess. Guess on the side of overloading the bearings can make your hubs can go kaput in a hurry.