14 replies to this topic

[FTodaro]

I am trying to figure out the mim wt of my flywheel on a 99.

The NASA rules are worded as follows:

13.2 Clutch System and Flywheel
Pressure Plate All cars shall use either the stock OEM pressure plate for the appropriate model year or
the following:
ï‚· ACT/Mazdaspeed p/n: 0000-02-5401-SS (1.6L cars) or 0000-02-5404-AC (1.8L cars)
ï‚· Exedy: MZC581 (OEM 1.6L Cars) or MZC610 (OEM 1.8L cars)
ï‚· Exedy: ZC04T (1.6 higher clamping force), and ZC12T (1.8 higher clamping force)
The unmodified pressure plate shall be bolted directly to the appropriate stock, unmodified flywheel.
The 94 model year may utilize the flywheel from the 95-05 model years.
Any clutch disk may be used. The minimum weight (including the pilot bearing) is 17.6 lbs for the 1.6L
and 17.1 lbs for the 1.8L. The OEM clutch line may be replaced with a steel braided line.


So my question is when I weigh the fylwheel, I include pilott bearing but do I include the clutch disk too?

[Jim Drago]

Correct, it is 17.0 in SCCA, we changed it as they are very close to that as delivered from Mazda
Jim

[pat slattery]

Jim, your saying you get to weigh the clutch disk as part of the 17 lbs?

[FTodaro]

That is where I am confused, I could read it both ways.

[davew]

This is the rule;

"The minimum weight (including the pilot bearing) is 17.6 lbs for the 1.6L
and 17.1 lbs for the 1.8L. "

NASA needs to proof read their rule book and put things in a logical order, so as not to confuse competitors.

Dave

[Qik Nip]

This is the rule;

"The minimum weight (including the pilot bearing) is 17.6 lbs for the 1.6L
and 17.1 lbs for the 1.8L. "

NASA needs to proof read their rule book and put things in a logical order, so as not to confuse competitors.

Dave

Personally I read this to include the pilot bearing but to EXCLUDE the disc from the minimum FW weight. If the disc is included, the wording needs to be much more explicit.
Rick

[Jim Drago]

disc IS NOT included in that weight

[Steve D]

I will request that this rule be clarified for the next version published by NASA.

[davew]

The rule is properly written. Just not properly ordered. Last part of the rule as quoted in the original post

The 94 model year may utilize the flywheel from the 95-05 model years.
Any clutch disk may be used. The minimum weight (including the pilot bearing) is 17.6 lbs for the 1.6L
and 17.1 lbs for the 1.8L. The OEM clutch line may be replaced with a steel braided line.

The proper order should be (I have also added the underlined words):

The minimum weight OF THE FLYWHEEL(including the pilot bearing) is 17.6 lbs for the 1.6L and 17.1 lbs for the 1.8L.
The 94 model year may utilize the flywheel from the 95-05 model years.

The OEM clutch line may be replaced with a steel braided line.

Any clutch disk may be used.

[john mueller]

I re-worked this section last Friday... I'm combining it with a few other items that needed some tightening. I hope to post an updated set of rules tomorrow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

14.2. Clutch System and Flywheel

14.2.1. Pressure Plate All cars shall use either the stock OEM pressure plate for the appropriate model year or the following:

· ACT/Mazdaspeed p/n: 0000-02-5401-SS (1.6L cars) or 0000-02-5404-AC (1.8L cars)

· Exedy: MZC581 (OEM 1.6L Cars) or MZC610 (OEM 1.8L cars)

· Exedy: ZC04T (1.6 higher clamping force), and ZC12T (1.8 higher clamping force)

14.2.2. The unmodified pressure plate shall be bolted directly to the appropriate stock, unmodified flywheel. The 94 model year may utilize the flywheel from the 95-05 model years.

14.2.3. The minimum weight of the flywheel (including the pilot bearing) shall not be less than:

· 17.60 lbs for the 1.6L

· 17.10 lbs for the 1.8L

14.2.4. Any clutch disk may be used.
14.2.5. The OEM clutch line may be replaced with a steel braided line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Doug007]

You don't need "minimum" AND "shall not be less than"

14.2.3. The weight of the flywheel (including the pilot bearing) shall not be less than:

[jaje]

You don't need "minimum" AND "shall not be less than"

14.2.3. The weight of the flywheel (including the pilot bearing) shall not be less than:

That was subjected to the Department of Redundancy Dept.

I'm all for tighetening up thelanguage of the rules as if the reader has difficulty understanding the rule then it opens up the interpretation and more violations.

[dstevens]

NASA needs to proof read their rule book and put things in a logical order, so as not to confuse competitors.

Yes, because we all know that the GCR is never confusing. Just teasing.... mostly.

That is the part I like about the benevolent dictator method of sanctioning. If they see an issue, they don't have a charter to follow to be able to enact change. Of course the corollary of that is that if they see something they don't like they can just change it as they wish. The Bullring drove us nuts doing that.

I understand SCCA has the charter to follow as a 501 not for profit but John was able to do in one day using input from a public message forum what would likely have taken several weeks and member initiation to have happen the SCCA. Not a bash, I think the SCCA is a pretty good org. Or I wouldn't have become a member. With a few exceptions it's all about middle aged men with more money than sense racing cars for fun.

[davew]

I whole heartedly agree, that SCCA has it own set of rules maintenance issues. I just went hrough the B-spec rules in preperation for Midwestern Council adding the class. What a mess !!!!!! Spelling, grammer, run on sentances, and nobody has ever heard of a "comma". Took me 4 hours of "cut and paste" to make it readable. I will be forwarding my rewrite to SCCA.

The rule book is kinda like the wiring on a race car. It starts out neat and clean. Then you add gauges, then a data, then a cool suit, etc. By now the wiring is a complete mess. Trying to fix it is more time consuming than a total rewire. But nobody wants to do it.

Dave

[Glenn]

I re-worked this section last Friday... I'm combining it with a few other items that needed some tightening. I hope to post an updated set of rules tomorrow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

14.2. Clutch System and Flywheel

14.2.1. Pressure Plate All cars shall use either the stock OEM pressure plate for the appropriate model year or the following:

· ACT/Mazdaspeed p/n: 0000-02-5401-SS (1.6L cars) or 0000-02-5404-AC (1.8L cars)

· Exedy: MZC581 (OEM 1.6L Cars) or MZC610 (OEM 1.8L cars)

· Exedy: ZC04T (1.6 higher clamping force), and ZC12T (1.8 higher clamping force)

14.2.2. The unmodified pressure plate shall be bolted directly to the appropriate stock, unmodified flywheel. The 94 model year may utilize the flywheel from the 95-05 model years.

14.2.3. The minimum weight of the flywheel (including the pilot bearing) shall not be less than:

· 17.60 lbs for the 1.6L

· 17.10 lbs for the 1.8L

14.2.4. Any clutch disk may be used.
14.2.5. The OEM clutch line may be replaced with a steel braided line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you also reworking the rules for OPEN diffs on 1.6 cars? Currently they are NOT allowed.