34 replies to this topic

[Glenn]

http://www.goaheadta...isons-politics/

Has anyone seen the recent commentary from Dave Gran reguarding Head and neck restraints?

I'm not a big fan of the major player in this arae and I HAVE to make a purchase soon. Is anyone using the Hybrid Pro Rage? If so what is your opinion of the ease of use?

[FTodaro]

I have used the Hybrid Pro for two years and have no complaints. I like the idea of the side impact protection offered by the additional tethers. I think its comfortable and I feel with the body harness system, in addition to just the helmet tethers that its a safer system, Just my opinion.

My only complaint over the Hans is that I have the old quick disconnect system that I cannot connect in the car, I have to put my helmet on outside the car with it all connected. So I have to get my helmet on sooner than the guys with hans who can put them on in the car and then just connect the tether strap to there helmet. Having to get the quick DC through two tether loops makes it a bit more difficult. It is just a bit hotter during the summer. but from a comfort and safety standpoint, I like it.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

On a complete side topic... I try to always get in and out of the car with helmet and in my case Hans on. I figure it is good practice to get out like I would need to in an emergency. So every time I get out of the car, I do it the same way. I try not to drop the window net before I am exiting, etc... I want the routine to be the same every time.

[pitbull113]

I have the hybrid pro rage but just bought it and haven't track tested it yet. Most of the complaints I have heard are the straps don't have enough adjustabilty. I suggest trying one on before you buy.

[Jim Boemler]

On a complete side topic... I try to always get in and out of the car with helmet and in my case Hans on. I figure it is good practice to get out like I would need to in an emergency. So every time I get out of the car, I do it the same way. I try not to drop the window net before I am exiting, etc... I want the routine to be the same every time.

Having a routine is great, but it's a little like practicing the correct racing line -- you also have to be able to race off-line. Practicing the unusual isn't a bad thing either.

[Glenn]

I have used the Hybrid Pro for two years and have no complaints. I like the idea of the side impact protection offered by the additional tethers. I think its comfortable and I feel with the body harness system, in addition to just the helmet tethers that its a safer system, Just my opinion.

My only complaint over the Hans is that I have the old quick disconnect system that I cannot connect in the car, I have to put my helmet on outside the car with it all connected. So I have to get my helmet on sooner than the guys with hans who can put them on in the car and then just connect the tether strap to there helmet. Having to get the quick DC through two tether loops makes it a bit more difficult. It is just a bit hotter during the summer. but from a comfort and safety standpoint, I like it.

Thanks Frank! I hope to get over to OG Racing this weekend and "try one on" for fit as well as my new seat.

[wreckerboy]

Glenn - I just went through this as part of replacing my ISAAC. Talk to Dave Parker at OG. It may be helpful to know your chest size before you get there as there are different sizes of Rage. I have a 29 inch chest and need a medium.

Other things to keep in mind:

• There are two different kinds of Rage, the type with the lap belt attachments and the type without. They loop over the lap belt like arm restraints. If you choose the second type make sure that your belts are compatible - you'll need the type that has the locking device attached to the sub belt or you will need to attach both sides to one side of the lap belt.
• There are two different attachments to the helmet - the clips that hook onto the D-rings and and the anchors that attach to HANS type mounts. The Simpson web site sucks when it comes to these things, but Dave has done some research on them and can edumacate you.

[Glenn]

Glenn - I just went through this as part of replacing my ISAAC. Talk to Dave Parker at OG. It may be helpful to know your chest size before you get there as there are different sizes of Rage. I have a 29 inch chest and need a medium.

Other things to keep in mind:

• There are two different kinds of Rage, the type with the lap belt attachments and the type without. They loop over the lap belt like arm restraints. If you choose the second type make sure that your belts are compatible - you'll need the type that has the locking device attached to the sub belt or you will need to attach both sides to one side of the lap belt.
• There are two different attachments to the helmet - the clips that hook onto the D-rings and and the anchors that attach to HANS type mounts. The Simpson web site sucks when it comes to these things, but Dave has done some research on them and can edumacate you.

Thanks Rob!

[LarryKing]

My

There is a reason that F1, IRL, NASCAR, NHRA and just about every other professional motorsports sanctioning body mandates the HANS. Not sure what the reason is, but there is one.

If a HANS is good enough for Kamui Kobayashi, its good enough for me.

[Glenn]

My

There is a reason that F1, IRL, NASCAR, NHRA and just about every other professional motorsports sanctioning body mandates the HANS. Not sure what the reason is, but there is one.

If a HANS is good enough for Kamui Kobayashi, its good enough for me.

Assuming that the full containment seat and appropriate side nets are also REQUIRED with the HANS I might agree. Otherwise Im not convinced that the HANS provides the BEST side impact protection. I am FAR more concerned with side impact vs a frontal impact. . The point of the video that I took away is that the SFI only accepts data from the MFG's and that data is not readily available for we meer mortals to review. Oh yeah and that politics also has its evil hands in our SAFETY........

[FTodaro]

Assuming that the full containment seat and appropriate side nets are also REQUIRED with the HANS I might agree. Otherwise Im not convinced that the HANS provides the BEST side impact protection. I am FAR more concerned with side impact vs a frontal impact. . The point of the video that I took away is that the SFI only accepts data from the MFG's and that data is not readily available for we meer mortals to review. Oh yeah and that politics also has its evil hands in our SAFETY........

Plus 1

I know there are two schools of thought on this, but if side impact is important to you, then the Hybrid, is the ticket. The hans does not have side to side protection, that has to come from the seat or net. My thinking was my neck can snap either from a frontal or side impact, both are forseable thus I went with that system. Now, i just hope i never have to test it.

[tony senese]

I have a 29 inch chest and need a medium.

Rob...... you need a new tape measure.....

[Glenn]

Rob...... you need a new tape measure.....

I know Rob and if he has a 29 in chest I have a beach front property in West Virginia I want to sell him, LOL

[Bench Racer]

IIRC when looking at the HANS, Isaac & Defnder data you will find that HANS makes zero mention of lateral load reduction. Again IIRC Isaac & Defnder both reduce lateral load by 86% & frontal load equal to or better than HANS. I understand Isaac does not meet the HANS/SFI certification.

Please keep in mind to gain equal protection from a HANS to A Defnder with the HANS you will need a F1/INDY car side insert or if your looking at NASCAR you'll need a Halo seat.

I used a Isaac & now will use a Defnder. < That's the ol saying vote/play the politics game with your pocket book/$$$.

[dstevens]

http://www.goaheadta...isons-politics/

Has anyone seen the recent commentary from Dave Gran reguarding Head and neck restraints?

I'm not a big fan of the major player in this arae and I HAVE to make a purchase soon. Is anyone using the Hybrid Pro Rage? If so what is your opinion of the ease of use?

He shouldn't have been surprised SFI wouldn't show him data. Been that way forever. It's good though that for those that weren't familiar he penned that piece. At the circle track about half the guys have one of the Saftey Solutions, I haven't tried one. Even at the local circle track level head and neck will be required. After seeing what happened to that chap at Laguna I sold my Kirkey Intermediate and I'll some sort of containment seat in. The entry level Butler Built looks good. When I get back I don't plan on racing without one or a head and neck. One bummer about being outside of Indianapolis or Charlotte is that there often aren't dealers where you can try them out. The plus side is you aren't living in Charlotte or Indy.....( I kid, Vegas is the asshole of the world once you get out of the resort corridor).

Hubbard and Safety Solutions hae a lock on that part of the biz now. Just how it it is. Besides, the manufacturers or SFI aren't mandating the change. The sanction is. Anyone with a beef should look there. I would be curious to see how many basilar skull fracture injuries/fatalities in club sports car racin gin the last 10 years. In local stock car racing the #1 cause of death is heart attack. The data comes from some stats the Charlotte Observer has been keeping. http://www.thatsraci...-the-track.html

That said, while I don't think that containment seats and head and neck sould be mandated at the club/amateur level, I'll be using them. For the simple fact they are safer than not having that sort of protection. A good containment and a HANS is adding $1500 to an already tapped budget. Considering when I ran that tubing notcher through my finger in Sept it was billled at US$2700 and the last outpatient procedure I had, in the hospital for about six hours was more than US$30k, it seems like pretty good insurance to me.

[Keith Novak]

There is no SFI protocol for a side test. I remember reading the test requirements, and looking at some data that was floated around and it wasn't comparable. It was a bunch of apples and oranges.

I do like my DefNder over the HANS but when it comes to the test data I've seen I'm reminded of the old saying "Statistics don't lie, but anyone can lie using statistics."

[Kevin Anderson]

I have been using the R3 since 2007. I love it, very comfortable. Crash tested several times, once into the Armco at Watkins glen on an angle in the Esses at full throttle. I remember driving home from the race that day noticing my chest area was sore from the belts. My whole upper body had a sore feel, but did not hurt in any one spot. But my neck was not sore at all and better yet my brain was still attached.
I had bought the Hans first, but I hated the way it fit across my collarbones. It hurt to make the belts really tight. I thought that if I wreck in this, this thing is snapping my collarbones. So I sold it and bought the R3.

I have heard of people breaking their collarbones in wrecks over the years and even remember someone thanking there Hans for saving their life because their wreck was so bad it broke their collarbone, I tend to believe that if they were wearing the R3 they would have had no injury.
I think some people including myself have more pronounced collarbones and should stay away from the Hans.

I wonder if some guys dont tighten down on their belts as tight as they should because of the Hans.
I know that Hans offers gel pads as an option, so there is obviously a comfort issue for many. I am pretty sure that gel pad is not saving you collarbones in a wreck, it may provide just enough comfort sitting there buckled in, but not in a wreck.

And I know the majority of users have no issue with the Hans, I am just saying if you notice discomfort in you collarbone area when wearing a Hans, then you should look at the other units.

[Keith Novak]

The DefNder is also good for that. Too bad they're discontinued. The device has straps that fit over your shoulder rather than the rigid structural part. I have screw heads sticking out of my collar bone that made cinching the belts tight painfull before and now I can get them very tight with no discomfort at all.

[wreckerboy]

Rob...... you need a new tape measure.....

I know Rob and if he has a 29 in chest I have a beach front property in West Virginia I want to sell him, LOL

Sorry, I got confused over which part of my anatomy I was measuring and protecting...

[Glenn]

I have been using the R3 since 2007. I love it, very comfortable. Crash tested several times, once into the Armco at Watkins glen on an angle in the Esses at full throttle. I remember driving home from the race that day noticing my chest area was sore from the belts. My whole upper body had a sore feel, but did not hurt in any one spot. But my neck was not sore at all and better yet my brain was still attached.
I had bought the Hans first, but I hated the way it fit across my collarbones. It hurt to make the belts really tight. I thought that if I wreck in this, this thing is snapping my collarbones. So I sold it and bought the R3.

I have heard of people breaking their collarbones in wrecks over the years and even remember someone thanking there Hans for saving their life because their wreck was so bad it broke their collarbone, I tend to believe that if they were wearing the R3 they would have had no injury.
I think some people including myself have more pronounced collarbones and should stay away from the Hans.

I wonder if some guys dont tighten down on their belts as tight as they should because of the Hans.
I know that Hans offers gel pads as an option, so there is obviously a comfort issue for many. I am pretty sure that gel pad is not saving you collarbones in a wreck, it may provide just enough comfort sitting there buckled in, but not in a wreck.

And I know the majority of users have no issue with the Hans, I am just saying if you notice discomfort in you collarbone area when wearing a Hans, then you should look at the other units.

Great point I had'nt thought about. I too have those collar bones that stick out and I do like my belts TIGHT!!