16 replies to this topic

[FTodaro]

I am trying to diagnose if I have a bearing problem or a torsen problem.
I had bought a used torsen and after I put it in it immediately started making sound I would describe as a whooshing sound, not a grinding or chunking sound. after you got up to about 30 miles per hr it would start making some noise.

I drained the oil and found some metal shavings on the drain plug magnet, so I pulled it out. I did not find much in the oil. I pulled the diff apart and separated to the torsen from the diff. I removed the side bearings, they felt warn but could not say for sure that they are shot or the problem. Same thing with the yoke, I have not separated it yet but no apparent problem from a visual inspection or from rotating it.

I took a can of brake cleaner and sprayed down the torsen. some metal shavings did wash out of it, not a lot but there was a trace of metal that came out. after I cleaned it I put a half shaft in it and rotated the inside of the torsen and is seamed to rotate fine, not sure what I am looking for the but the guts rotated smoothly.

So I have a problem but I am not sure if it’s a bearing issue or the Torsen. I have bought the parts to put the torsen in a spare open diff, with new bearings, just trying to figure out if I am installing the bad part into the spare diff.
I tried to examine the bearings, no apparent damage on the part of the bearing races I could see.
The metal shavings I found were very fine and I would say total, if I were to put them into a ball would be the size of an eraser head.

My original assumption was that it was bearings, as I would not expect a torsen to make noise if you just rotating the diff on the lift when I could reproduce the sound. However I did not find any obvious bearing failure.
Anyone have any suggestions to determine if the torsen is still good?

[Keith Novak]

Best to take it to someone who knows what they're doing. When I swapped in the new R&P, I got a tutorial on diff inspection during the disassembly. Most of it I've forgotten but it was enough to be glad I brought it to someone who knows what to look at.

[Glenn]

I am trying to diagnose if I have a bearing problem or a torsen problem.
I had bought a used torsen and after I put it in it immediately started making sound I would describe as a whooshing sound, not a grinding or chunking sound. after you got up to about 30 miles per hr it would start making some noise.

I drained the oil and found some metal shavings on the drain plug magnet, so I pulled it out. I did not find much in the oil. I pulled the diff apart and separated to the torsen from the diff. I removed the side bearings, they felt warn but could not say for sure that they are shot or the problem. Same thing with the yoke, I have not separated it yet but no apparent problem from a visual inspection or from rotating it.

I took a can of brake cleaner and sprayed down the torsen. some metal shavings did wash out of it, not a lot but there was a trace of metal that came out. after I cleaned it I put a half shaft in it and rotated the inside of the torsen and is seamed to rotate fine, not sure what I am looking for the but the guts rotated smoothly.

So I have a problem but I am not sure if it’s a bearing issue or the Torsen. I have bought the parts to put the torsen in a spare open diff, with new bearings, just trying to figure out if I am installing the bad part into the spare diff.
I tried to examine the bearings, no apparent damage on the part of the bearing races I could see.
The metal shavings I found were very fine and I would say total, if I were to put them into a ball would be the size of an eraser head.

My original assumption was that it was bearings, as I would not expect a torsen to make noise if you just rotating the diff on the lift when I could reproduce the sound. However I did not find any obvious bearing failure.
Anyone have any suggestions to determine if the torsen is still good?

Sounds like the balancer on teh front is bad! They make weird noises at about 30 or so. See if it spins without the driveshaft spinning!

[FTodaro]

Glen I checked that its OK. The sound is a metalic sound like draging a coat hanger on the driveshaft. No sound at low rpm. No slop in the unit. the only clues I have is the sound and the metal shavings.

[FTodaro]

It was the Torsen. I decided to take it apart and see how it works. Its not all that complicated. I do not think they sell replacement parts. I sent Torsen an email I will find out but 3 of the 8 planetary gears was bad.

The bad Gear.
[attachment=231475:Torsen 010 (Small).jpg]

[Ron Alan]

Wow. Guess I wont be selling our spare! BTW...was this a Torsen I(94-95) or II(rest of the years)?

[Keith Novak]

I'm pretty sure you can buff that out.

[FTodaro]

Wow. Guess I wont be selling our spare! BTW...was this a Torsen I(94-95) or II(rest of the years)?

This was a type two, not sure what years, I did not know the history of the diff but the idea that they are indestructible is not true. Not sure why it failed, no signs of heat or scoring.

[Danimal]

Did it make like a clicking/clunking noise when you would get on the gas or off the gas hard?

thanx
Dan

[FTodaro]

No it was a constant hissing sound at about 30 mph and above. Keep in mind I only drove it 50 miles but could hear it.

I sent my pictures to Torsen and asked their opinion. They confirmed they do not sell repair or replacement parts. To bad as this would be easy to fix, its pretty simple.


The guy said that this kind of wear would be from putting a heavy load on the diff and spinning the tires. He also thinks that it is likely that the bearing failure was first that shavings contaminated the torsen. I am thinking that this might have been a diff from an Auto cross car, that was under heavy loading and spinning out of a corner.

While we do load up the diff at the track our higher speeds normally do not involve that much wheel spinning.

[Killian]

Here is a video from my recent Torsen swap.



The car still drives alright and I have a partial refund from the original seller. I will need to refurbish the unit in the future, I just have no idea what to look for.

[Ron Alan]

Private video!

[Joe Benton]

What are the indicators a Torsen is going bad? I have about an inch of play in both rear wheels when the car is jacked and in gear. Is that normal?

[Glenn Davis]

What are the indicators a Torsen is going bad? I have about an inch of play in both rear wheels when the car is jacked and in gear. Is that normal?

Joe-

 

What direction is the play?  Rotational?

[Joe Benton]

[quote name="Glenn Davis" post="65393" timestamp="1409794784"]Joe-
 
What direction is the play?  Rotational?[/quote

Yes Glenn. Rotational.

[Ron Alan]

Going off memory what Jim told me. Jack one side up...car not in gear. The wheel should move back and forth 3/4" give or take. He had one that rotated 4"...no good

[FTodaro]

What are the indicators a Torsen is going bad? I have about an inch of play in both rear wheels when the car is jacked and in gear. Is that normal?

Things to look for

Wheel spin on track that is not ususal

noise

metal in fluid(copper like or other)

Pitted gears inside the torsen

The rotation test that Jim talks about it would have to  be significant movement Mine moved 2 or more inches, that is somewhat determined by how loose the diff was lashed.