42 replies to this topic

[Philip Springer]

Hello everyone!
I think I have caught the fever, and am looking to get into a Spec Miata in some way, but need to have some direction. I have found a 1993 with low mileage for less than $3000, and am sort of excited by the prospect of the build, but I also ran across a company that has ready-to-race Spec Miatas for $9999. Am I better off buying a clean, low-mileage $3k car and building it, money-wise, or will I spend more ultimately by DIYing it? To be honest, it may be easier to swallow the process in bite-sized pieces, but if it saves me a bunch of cash to go RTR, then I will consider that seriously.

Also, I have seen some indication of SSM, and SM (not sure of the practical differences), and there are NASA and SCCA for organizations. I don't know which way to go, but I think I am wanting universal compatibility over a highly-focused, series-specific build that may exclude it from other series. I am under no illusion that I will have either the time or the resources to win a National Championship, although my inner Fangio tells me that driving talent won't be the barrier of course! So, realistically, I want a great track day car that is eligible to compete in regionally accessible Spec Miata events.

I live in the Mobile Bay area, and my range of tracks will probably include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:

NOLA Motor
Barber Motorsports
Road Atlanta
Talladega

There may be others that I am currently unaware of, and I am keenly interested in learning about them, too.

Thanks in advance for all the advice and input!

[wheel]

There are a lot of posts about this subject. I'm not sure the search function will take you to the stuff on the old site. It is cheaper, by far, to buy a good previously raced car. They are available in a wide range of prices, with the $10K about in the middle of a good, solid car. They range up into the $20K+ range for cars that are capable of winning national races, with a good driver.
wheel

[dstevens]

Like Wheel says, lots of posts on the old site. If you have the cash you are better off buying a car with a log book. I'm building because like you I can do it in smaller hunks and B ) I like building race cars. You'll need time and tools. The big fab item is the cage. Most can't or shouldn't do their own. It boils down to do you want to drive or build this season? I think 3k is steep for a 93 donor. At that point you're better to spend a bit more upfront and build a 99. As a reference I've got about 1500 into my 90 donor and hardtop.

That 10k shop built car could be a good deal if the shop is reputable. That sort of build is usually around 15k.

The difference between SM and SSM is different in different regions. In some it's bone stock, others have sealed engine programs. It sounds like you haven't raced before so it's likely that your first couple of seasons will be all about race craft and learning the car. You can do that with a more modest, less expensive build and upgrade or buy another car once you get the hang of it. You don't need a 20k car for that. A 10k car will be just fine.

[dmq]

You're probably about 3 hours away from Circuit Grand Bayou in Donaldsonville, LA. www.circuitgrandbayou.com

[Philip Springer]

Hell, I had an elaborate post all done, and the site crashed. Oh well.

wheel,
I have found actual used cars for sale from $19k to $26k so far. I have seen an ad from a link at www.specmiata.com referencing SCCA rules which had an intro sheet showing www.racerlabz.com Spec Miatas starting at $9999. Will call them Monday and feel them out. I would definitely appreciate other sources for affordable used race cars. I am not going to spend $18k plus on my first go round.

dstevens,
Spending as I go in smaller hunks = +
Building my own car = +
I want to learn about race car building as I go forward, and this seems a good way to have some therapeutic shop time. Will not be building my own cage, but would be interested in installing myself if possible. Life safety item, too important to risk to my non-existent welding skills. I am thinking I like the ones with side bars behind the doors. Am leaning to having the car be street legal so on the weekends I am not at the track, I can enjoy it with my wife or son. Don't mind crawling in over the bars if necessary. Not looking for the ultimate, barely-legal track weapon, mostly improving my driving skills and having fun. Want a car which is flexible enough to be used in SCCA and NASA SM & SSM racing, plus less formal track days.

Why 99? I am totally open to ideas. Just threw out 90-93 because that is what the focus of the aftermarket I have run across seems to be. If 99 is my best opportunity to have fun and keep it affordable, then 99 it shall be.

dmq,
Thanks for the link. It is about 45 minutes further for me than NOLA, but that's fine. I wanted to reply in kind by letting you know about www.nolamotor.com. My boss is friends with the guy who is developing it, and it looks like it will be top-notch when completed this Spring/Summer. It will have Autocross, Karting, and a world-class, multi-configuration road racing track.

[dmq]

Yeah, looking forward to that track opening.
First you should search and read the archives at www.specmiata.com and then you should buy The Spec Miata Constructors Manual www.advanced-autosports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=42

I'm just finishing my build so I'm not the best to give advice. But there are a few things I can tell you...

Don't expect to drive a spec miata on the street. It isn't safe to drive a caged car without a helmet and the sm suspension combined with a race seat will rattle your teeth loose.

I paid $1300 for my '91 donor car. I found one with a trashed top and trashed interior but, solid drivetrain, and body. The parts that make a car worth $3000 to most people will be removed from the car, so why pay for them. try to find one that includes a hardtop.

There are lots of expenses besides buying/building the car, so plan on them. Helmet, firesuit, Hans device, trailer, tow vehicle, tires, brake pads, gas to the track, track time, just to name a few.

Its an expensive hobby, one that I can't really afford. But with just the few lapping days that I've done, I can assure you its well worth it.

[l8tbreakr]

Phillip you might want to check classifieds on this site, specmiata.com (while its still around), and racingjunk.com. Its cheaper to buy than build and in many cases a lot less hassle finding cars that already have some development done. Since youre looking at early cars anyway, its a good time to buy since the guys with deep pockets are building newer cars. Ive built 2 cars but bought my early spec miata, great car and great group of people youll have a lot of fun. And the early miata is a good platform in a number of classes - sm, ssm, ita, fp - if for some reason you want to try other classes. For now it sounds like you may be getting started suggest a few lapping days and if you dont have your license then nasa hpde program is a great way to learn how to develop your driving skills.

[Philip Springer]

Thanks guys! I will definitely check out the sites you mentioned. www.racingjunk.com? What a great URL name.

What do you guys think about this car?

2000 Mazda Miata MX-5

Does it appear to be basically race-ready to your eyes? I wasn't sure some of the stuff was class-legal for SSM or SM. The roll cage looks iffy, too.

Found some cool stuff on RacingJunk.com. I am mulling over my options. I really do think I would enjoy the build process, but may not be able to pass up a race-ready car so I can go ahead and go to license schools/HDPEs and start getting some track time. Of course, I guess I could do the HDPEs without a race-prepped car, and spread the expenses over a couple of seasons, as has been stated.

Thanks for the comments on driving a SSM or SM prepped car on the street with the cage. I didn't even consider that issue at all.

[Ron Alan]

99 was mentioned because thats the car to have in SCCA as the rules are written currently and the tracks that are run for National events. 3 cars that I know of in our area recently sold from $6k-$9k race ready with $10k being about the norm advertised price. Post a WTB ad here on this site for free...see what kind of response you get. But if you decide to build be prepared to spend a lot of time and buy Wheelers book! Most guys will look for the cheapest car they can find with a hard top...not a bad start but sometimes you will get what you pay for...make sure the car is mechanically sound. We went the other way and bought a highly modified HPDE car. We tracked it for 2 events and then started our build. Because the car had really nice aftermarket parts we couldn't use(intake,headers, exhaust, wheels, suspension, passenger race seat and harness plus a bunch of little items)we sold these which completely paid for the initial cost of the car! But again you have to do your research and know what your looking at in whatever direction you decide to go. Happy hunting

[Ron Alan]

In regard to the link you posted...this is just a street car correct? essentially a donor car correct?

For this kind of money you can find a race ready car...but if you buy a NB donor there are things it must come with...5 speed and Torsen. You can call mazdaspeed with a vin# and they will tell you if a car had a factory Torsen or not.

[dstevens]

You're going to have to go to a fabricator for the cage. No installing it yourself at this point. The installation is welding it to your tub. It doesn't happen in one piece. As an example, after learning how to weld in high school, I picked it up again almost 4 years ago. It took a year or two before I felt comfortable about building a cage. I've done a few since then. And it takes a few grand in tools. The bender and the drive system is over a grand. The MIG welder and everything to drive it and protect me is about a grand. And another grand for the plasma cutter. And 1500 for the TIG. The notcher is a few hundred and another few hun for the clamps and fixtures.

[jsh]

Needless to say, just because someone knows how to weld doesn't necessarily mean that they know how to design and build a cage. Safety is #1, but the performance enhancements from a well designed and engineered cage should be considered. There are alot of POS cages out there. Then there's the one thing that most everyone will tell you to get, seat time, seat time, seat time. I know that I need alot more....

[dstevens]

I was speaking to specifically getting a kit. I've done it for other cars though I'm not using a kit for this one. (unless I fall even further behind ) Even with a kit that kind of fab requires more fitment and fab time than time under the hood. That was the point to the OP, there is more to it than trying to booger a bead around some tube. What I do suggest to those that want to start to fab, have someone do your cage for this one and start on smaller projects like a welding/fab table, welder cart, engine stands, etc.

To get the most out of a custom cage that balances/ballasts the car you need someone that's got a lot of data about that particular make. I don't see that being a common starter build, or even self build technique. A downside when you build that specific is that if there are competition adjustments you might not be able to make weight. It seems that might be the case with some pro builds in light of the recent NASA rule change.

[KentCarter]

Thanks guys! I will definitely check out the sites you mentioned. www.racingjunk.com? What a great URL name.

What do you guys think about this car?

2000 Mazda Miata MX-5

Does it appear to be basically race-ready to your eyes? I wasn't sure some of the stuff was class-legal for SSM or SM. The roll cage looks iffy, too.

Found some cool stuff on RacingJunk.com. I am mulling over my options. I really do think I would enjoy the build process, but may not be able to pass up a race-ready car so I can go ahead and go to license schools/HDPEs and start getting some track time. Of course, I guess I could do the HDPEs without a race-prepped car, and spread the expenses over a couple of seasons, as has been stated.

Thanks for the comments on driving a SSM or SM prepped car on the street with the cage. I didn't even consider that issue at all.

Nothing about this car is race ready. The cage looks like a low-quality bolt-in compromise cage to me. I doubt it would pass technical inspection.

Your smart first step is to go to some SCCA/NASA races and look at cars and talk to drivers. Sit in a few cars, meet people. Perhaps even volunteer to work a few races to get a sense of what it's all about.

[Philip Springer]

Nothing about this car is race ready. The cage looks like a low-quality bolt-in compromise cage to me. I doubt it would pass technical inspection.

Your smart first step is to go to some SCCA/NASA races and look at cars and talk to drivers. Sit in a few cars, meet people. Perhaps even volunteer to work a few races to get a sense of what it's all about.

Sort of thought that, too. I will definitely slow down, take a deep breath, and try to do a little field work before committing to buying a race car. For right now, I have too many questions, and not enough answers. I do, of course, need to make sure I can actually fit in one of these things with a helmet on. Being 6'3" and 240 lbs., that may be a legit concern.

I am going to go ahead and buy a helmet for sure, and I think I will take a car to a few track days first. This will give me a feel for what it is like to drive at speed, and see if the whole gig is for me. I'm not expecting to dislike it, but I expect to be able to gain some insight by taking it more deliberately.

[Cy Peake]

The real trick to the whole gig is getting the Mrs. on board Once you accomplish that you're halfway there.

[dstevens]

I am going to go ahead and buy a helmet for sure, and I think I will take a car to a few track days first. This will give me a feel for what it is like to drive at speed, and see if the whole gig is for me. I'm not expecting to dislike it, but I expect to be able to gain some insight by taking it more deliberately.

You're in a good part of the country to try one out. A couple of different ways to go. You could do a track day rental from a local shop/team or do something like Skippy (that would be Skip Barber) on a one day program. If you are on the Skippy mailing list they have a sort of outlet mall special thing they send out on Fridays to fill last minute seats and greatly reduced prices. It's an MX5 and not an SM but it will be close enough and give you a taste of training. They provide all the gear.

An advantage to using a local team is that you have someone that is running in the series and is a good way for you build some contacts as you start. If you are new to racing in general you will need the help. Some of the best money I spent was this way. I bought my own ride at first but had someone else work on it and provide coaching.

I wouldn't be concerned with your size getting into an SM. You may have to customize seat placement and cage construction in your own car but you shouldn't have an issue fitting.

[dstevens]

The real trick to the whole gig is getting the Mrs. on board Once you accomplish that you're halfway there.

LOL. The clincher is when she comes into the shop during a long build and asks "why didn't you just buy a finished car this time?" That's when you know she really gets it.

[Philip Springer]

You're in a good part of the country to try one out. A couple of different ways to go. You could do a track day rental from a local shop/team or do something like Skippy (that would be Skip Barber) on a one day program. If you are on the Skippy mailing list they have a sort of outlet mall special thing they send out on Fridays to fill last minute seats and greatly reduced prices. It's an MX5 and not an SM but it will be close enough and give you a taste of training. They provide all the gear.

An advantage to using a local team is that you have someone that is running in the series and is a good way for you build some contacts as you start. If you are new to racing in general you will need the help. Some of the best money I spent was this way. I bought my own ride at first but had someone else work on it and provide coaching.

I wouldn't be concerned with your size getting into an SM. You may have to customize seat placement and cage construction in your own car but you shouldn't have an issue fitting.

Okay, that sounds like a good approach. I think I will get on the Skip Barber mailing list just as a precaution if nothing else.

BTW, I am new to racing, and I thought that SM only allowed MX-5s. What other kinds of cars are eligible? Or did you mean relatively "stock" MX-5, versus a race-prepped car?

Cy,
I hear ya on the Ms. I think if it doesn't hurt our budget too much, she'll be all for it. She drives a BMW 330i ZHP sedan with a 6M right now, and it's in the shop today, so her loaner is a 2010 BMW 328 sedan with a slushbox. She's not happy. She came in from work in a bad mood anyway, but I asked her how she liked the "new" car, and she said she didn't like almost anything about it. Hates the automatic. Doesn't corner confidently. Isn't fast. LOL. I love that woman!

[dstevens]

Okay, that sounds like a good approach. I think I will get on the Skip Barber mailing list just as a precaution if nothing else.

BTW, I am new to racing, and I thought that SM only allowed MX-5s. What other kinds of cars are eligible? Or did you mean relatively "stock" MX-5, versus a race-prepped car?

It's the Playboy Cup race car as opposed to the Spec Miata package. It's the big boy race Miata. The MX5 Cup cars are newer and have a different spec than the SM. That's the pro class. Spec Miata is the amateur/club class that uses older cars with a different spec.

There is a class Sun at Sebring with 5 seats left. If they don't move the email will likely offer them for half price, which is $349. http://www.skipbarbe...Intro-To-Racing

Car spec is here, second one down.
http://www.skipbarbe...specifications/