42 replies to this topic

[davew]

This has been covered multiple times on the old site. I think you are the first on this site. SO congrats on being 1st in the class!!!!!

ALthough most people interchange the terms Miata and MX5, we do not. Miatas where built from 1990-2005 and are raced in Sm/SSM and various other classes. MX5 cars where built from 2006 to current. They race in the current pro Playboy series, SM5 and various other classes. Skippy uses basicly stock MX5's

Same advise as on the other site; READ READ READ

Read this site, read the old specmiata.com and read the GCR/rule book. Then buy my book and read it several times. Go to the track and befriend the local Miata shop. Talk to anybody who will talk back. Look at cars and take pictures. Then go back and read some more.

Remeber that a cheap purchase price does not always equate to a good deal. I have made a lot of money fixing up the $9500 internet specials. I have a $9500 car in the shop, that after 3 races we put in a motor, a trans and a diff. On top of roll cage mods and misc repairs. $20k invested after 3 races!!!!!

There are several reputable pro builders out there. Our cars cost more, but I think it is worth it in the long run. I could type on this subject for days. And I did in the beginning of my book!!!!!

Welcome to our group. Now the fun starts

Dave

[Ernie Jr.]

get a miata

[Philip Springer]

This has been covered multiple times on the old site. I think you are the first on this site. SO congrats on being 1st in the class!!!!!

ALthough most people interchange the terms Miata and MX5, we do not. Miatas where built from 1990-2005 and are raced in Sm/SSM and various other classes. MX5 cars where built from 2006 to current. They race in the current pro Playboy series, SM5 and various other classes. Skippy uses basicly stock MX5's

Same advise as on the other site; READ READ READ

Read this site, read the old specmiata.com and read the GCR/rule book. Then buy my book and read it several times. Go to the track and befriend the local Miata shop. Talk to anybody who will talk back. Look at cars and take pictures. Then go back and read some more.

Remeber that a cheap purchase price does not always equate to a good deal. I have made a lot of money fixing up the $9500 internet specials. I have a $9500 car in the shop, that after 3 races we put in a motor, a trans and a diff. On top of roll cage mods and misc repairs. $20k invested after 3 races!!!!!

There are several reputable pro builders out there. Our cars cost more, but I think it is worth it in the long run. I could type on this subject for days. And I did in the beginning of my book!!!!!

Welcome to our group. Now the fun starts

Dave

Dave,
Thanks much for the feedback. It is somewhat ironic that you recommend that I "hire a pro", sort of an inside joke, since in my business, that is our motto also. I do understand the benefits, for sure. I am looking for your book on Amazon, and will buy it if I can find a copy. If not, I will be back asking to buy a signed copy directly from you! As a matter of fact, do you sell them directly, and do you take PayPal?

If I can work out the details, I just committed to buy a really clean, low mileage S2000. I am planning on using it for a DD and to get my feet wet on the track, but it is much too nice to end up as a full-blown racer at this point. I do think I would get a "Miata" instead of an "MX-5" if I go forward with that program.

[Tom Hampton]

Yes, dave sells the book direct at advanced-autosports.com.

lots of us have one. Highly recommended.

A track car is good...but, why s2000? Like BPP said...get a miata!

[davew]

My book is not available at Amazon. Purchase using paypal or credit card at www.advanced-autosports.com

[Cnj]

Phillip,

The S2000 is a fun street car - but be aware that it's lack of effective rollover protection precludes it from use in some car club DE's (driver education) on race tracks. I personally would not track it without a good roll bar, racing seats with harness and arm straps. But then some people are more adventurous than I am. I would be fine doing autocross in a stock S2000.

I will echo recommendations to visit a SM race to chat to drivers. You will learn more in a day of doing this than lots of reading. Houston SCCA has a race this weekend (MSR Houston) and so do other regions over the next few weeks.

Craig J

[Philip Springer]

Guys,
I am scheduled to be going to the Road Atlanta Double National, March 17-20, 2011. The purpose of my trip is as you have advised, which is to sit in cars, talk with owners, learn the ropes, etc. I am really excited about the opportunity, and hope to meet lots of good folks. If you are there, I hope to see you!

The S2000 is, as I mentioned, a DD/fair weather toy. I have no intention of racing it at this time. It is a very well-preserved 2000 model, with very low mileage, and my wife is very interested in it. I have been trying to talk her into a Boxster S for a year, but she thinks they're ugly! LOL! Anyway, we have wanted a ragtop for a long time, and this was a chance to get a nice one for a nice price. I am still entertaining the idea of HPDEs in her current car, which is an E46 BMW 330i ZHP sedan. I know this is a Miata-focused forum, but you car guys out there probably already know what a ZHP is all about. I think it may do well for learning, and getting my license, at least. BMWs are too expensive to make into race cars for me, but it could serve a purpose, and since it is a sedan, it will be safer than an open top car without a cage. I wasn't really worried about the S2000 for HPDEs before, but maybe I underestimated the intensity of the event?

I have been in contact with a couple of forum members already about a (Miata) car. A couple have taken the initiative to voluntarily contact me, which I greatly appreciate. Everyone is so supportive, there is a very nice feeling of camraderie here, which I hope to continue and contribute to, when I have something of value to offer.

Cnj,
About the AutoX.... Is that a useful driver skills development arena? What I mean is, do the skills learned and honed on those ultra-short, parking lot courses translate to a road course? I just have in my mind the analogy of racquetball and tennis from my youth. I was always told to avoid racquetball as a serious tennis player, because racquetball skills don't translate well, and it even teaches bad habits for tennis. There are AutoX events almost every weekend near my house, and I would certainly do it if it helps me progress my skills. Never been to one before, but I have a friend who was a champion of some kind, and he's been trying to pull me into that game for a little while now. Should I call him and give in?

[KentCarter]

Guys,
I am scheduled to be going to the Road Atlanta Double National, March 17-20, 2011. The purpose of my trip is as you have advised, which is to sit in cars, talk with owners, learn the ropes, etc. I am really excited about the opportunity, and hope to meet lots of good folks. If you are there, I hope to see you!

....

Cnj,
About the AutoX.... Is that a useful driver skills development arena? What I mean is, do the skills learned and honed on those ultra-short, parking lot courses translate to a road course? I just have in my mind the analogy of racquetball and tennis from my youth. I was always told to avoid racquetball as a serious tennis player, because racquetball skills don't translate well, and it even teaches bad habits for tennis. There are AutoX events almost every weekend near my house, and I would certainly do it if it helps me progress my skills. Never been to one before, but I have a friend who was a champion of some kind, and he's been trying to pull me into that game for a little while now. Should I call him and give in?

Excellent plan!

You learn a lot in an autocross. How to find the limit quickly, how to learn a course, how to look ahead, how to spin, how not to spin.... What you don't learn in an autocross is racecraft. The art of getting the guy/gal ahead of you to mess up. How to take that alternative line when the guy/gal gets under you in that middle-speed turn. How to make a 2-turn pass. How to out brake the next guy/gal without out braking yourself.

[Cnj]

Phillip,

Autocross will teach you some great skills, in particular timing, car control, accuracy, looking ahead and braking (often left foot). The bad habits of an autocross driver (for racing) are typically very aggressive turns and braking as the courses are tight and seldom reward smoothness - which is what is required in the track at much higher speed. Some extremely good drivers started out in autocross (Randy Pobst and Jason Saini come to mind).

The BMW will serve you well at DE's but will not allow you to achieve a racing license (at least not in SCCA). No big deal as you can get this when you build/buy a proper race car.

Craig J

[Philip Springer]

Thank you for all the valuable feedback! I can't wait to get on track for the first time in some form or fashion.

[Philip Springer]

My book is not available at Amazon. Purchase using paypal or credit card at www.advanced-autosports.com

Duly ordered, sir.

[TR6]

I do, of course, need to make sure I can actually fit in one of these things with a helmet on. Being 6'3" and 240 lbs., that may be a legit concern.

Shouldn't be a problem. I'm exactly that size and weight and I fit fine. The key is getting the seat down low enough and far enough back. But that will likely require some custom cage design specifically to fit you.

Unless you absolutely need to do a car on the installment plan or just really enjoy doing the build yourself, buy a used turn key race car with a logbook from someone known in their local region. You can find a good car for $8K - $10K to get started with. It won't be a front runner, but will be a solid platform to spend your first couple of years learning how to race.

Most of all, have fun!

[dstevens]

Competition karting will teach you more about racing than autocross and you'll learn the same basics of car control. With a few exceptions, most pro racers start in karts. It's cheap, you can start learning race craft right away. A low hp racing kart is cheaper to buy and maintain than a high end autocross/track car. To race you need car control skills AND race craft. Dealing with traffic and having the spacial awareness of what is happening around you. Track time is usually more plentiful as you can go test whenever the track is open and not have to wait for an event. And the track time is cheaper.

[JeffC]

Hello everyone!
I think I have caught the fever, and am looking to get into a Spec Miata in some way, but need to have some direction. I have found a 1993 with low mileage for less than $3000, and am sort of excited by the prospect of the build, but I also ran across a company that has ready-to-race Spec Miatas for $9999. Am I better off buying a clean, low-mileage $3k car and building it, money-wise, or will I spend more ultimately by DIYing it? To be honest, it may be easier to swallow the process in bite-sized pieces, but if it saves me a bunch of cash to go RTR, then I will consider that seriously.

Also, I have seen some indication of SSM, and SM (not sure of the practical differences), and there are NASA and SCCA for organizations. I don't know which way to go, but I think I am wanting universal compatibility over a highly-focused, series-specific build that may exclude it from other series. I am under no illusion that I will have either the time or the resources to win a National Championship, although my inner Fangio tells me that driving talent won't be the barrier of course! So, realistically, I want a great track day car that is eligible to compete in regionally accessible Spec Miata events.

I live in the Mobile Bay area, and my range of tracks will probably include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:

NOLA Motor
Barber Motorsports
Road Atlanta
Talladega

There may be others that I am currently unaware of, and I am keenly interested in learning about them, too.

Thanks in advance for all the advice and input!

[JeffC]

Just got into it a year ago and am 6'4" 215# so if I can answer some questions let me know.
But you really should try the car "on" before you buy. I looked at a dozen cars before I found one I could
get in and out of and actually drive with a helmet on. Some cars I could not even get into because of
the cage.
But it is a blast and a great group of people.

[Philip Springer]

Shouldn't be a problem. I'm exactly that size and weight and I fit fine. The key is getting the seat down low enough and far enough back. But that will likely require some custom cage design specifically to fit you.

Unless you absolutely need to do a car on the installment plan or just really enjoy doing the build yourself, buy a used turn key race car with a logbook from someone known in their local region. You can find a good car for $8K - $10K to get started with. It won't be a front runner, but will be a solid platform to spend your first couple of years learning how to race.

Most of all, have fun!

Had an interesting experience yesterday. I got the itch to test drive a car or two, so I went to a Mazda dealer who also happened to have a used 2007 Honda S2000 in stock. How convenient! Test drove the S2000 first, loved it. Keeping in mind that I am 6' 3" and 240+, with proportionally more height in my upper body apparently, I fit snugly, but it was pretty comfortable with the top up. Weird that it doesn't have an adjustable wheel at all, but it ended up fitting fine. What a fantastic transmission! Great dynamics, good power, but needs revs to really pop (not really a criticism).

Partly because my boss is very interested in one, and partly because I would seriously consider one, I also ended up driving a new MX-5. While the sales guy was getting the keys, I tried to sit in a hardtop/convertible on the showroom floor. I couldn't even sit up straight! With the seat leaned back and as low to the floor as possible, my head has to tilt sideways a good 15-20 degrees and is still making contact. It isn't even close. No way could I buy that car. Just to see about the other dimensions and get a feel for the driveability, I tested one with the top down. Plenty of headroom, of course, and I actually did like it pretty well, but I probably shouldn't have driven the S2000 first, because the MX-5 felt a little underpowered in comparison. Pretty nice transmission, though.

I did sit in a soft top MX-5 to get more data, and I fit better in it, but my head still makes a little bump in the roof fabric if I sit up straight. So I am afraid that the MX-5 is a non-starter. Which got me to thinking...

I can't wait to get to Road Atlanta in March, because I really need to sit in a couple of prepped race cars, with race seats, cages, etc., to make sure I can fit at all. I really hope the race seats and their mounts make a huge difference, because I don't want that to determine that I CAN'T participate in SM. Will any of you guys be there that weekend? I have spoken with Jim Drago, and he does plan to be there, and I hear he's built similarly to me. Anybody else? If you are going to be there, may I sit in your car for just a bit?

P.S. Dave, I got the book last night. Thank you for your prompt shipment. Got home late from work, but I have already read half of it.

[dstevens]

If you got the S2k and put basic safety gear in the car you could race it in Honda Challenge H2 with the new rules this year. That's a pretty steep curve for a rookie. SpecE30 and Spec 944 are pretty cheap but SM offers one thing the others don't. Car counts. For me it was a toss up between H4 and SM. At first it's not a big deal with 4 or 5 only in the class. Once you start doing it a lot it sucks. Don't judge sitting in a prepared race car with the same street car. It's way different. Got talk to Drago, go see Wheeler if you can and any of the others that will let you sit in the cars and ask questions. Unless you go balls to the wall and throw down all the cash and get in a license school you likely won't be going wheel to wheel before the end of the season. And realistically beginning of next season. Take your time, talk to folks and make sure it's worth the investment for you.

[Philip Springer]

dstevens,

As I mentioned earlier in the thread:
"The S2000 is, as I mentioned, a DD/fair weather toy. I have no intention of racing it at this time."

I am sticking by this, at least for now. I agree about the time frame, too. I am leaning strongly towards Spec Miata, but being unaware of the many alternatives, I am at least keeping my mind open. If the S2000 ever sees the track, I expect it to only be for HPDEs. I did find out that it is eligible via my NASA Mid-South director.

I see now that I will realistically not be able to complete the pre-requisites much before the beginning of the 2012 season, if that soon. I do intend to pursue it as vigorously as my free time and budget will allow, but since I don't have a competition license of any kind at the moment, I need to work out a few details before someone will allow me to race wheel to wheel.

Tried to call Jim Drago, but was told he is in Sin City for the SCCA convention. I will try him again tomorrow. Also will be calling Dave Wheeler to see if he'll be at RA for the Double National.

[Lance Snyder]

Philip, you'll have a blast at the Road Atlanta national. Are you going to be there all 3 days? If so might I suggest you come work F&C with us for a day. It will give you yet another perspective on what all goes on behind the scenes to make the show happen and you might actually like it! As an added bonus do it enough so when you goto your driver schools you will be much farther ahead of the curve for both the classroom and on track sessions. Our hours can be long, the weather can suck but what you learn can be invaluable when it comes time to wheel to wheel.

I was working turn 1 at Road Atlanta for the 09 December event when a S2000 TT car kept pushing and pushing before finally the snap oversteer got em sending them into the wall drivers left.... on it's side. The guy only had the TT roll bar and a softtop, got lucky that day... thought I was going to be responding to something incredibly nasty.

[Philip Springer]

Philip, you'll have a blast at the Road Atlanta national. Are you going to be there all 3 days? If so might I suggest you come work F&C with us for a day. It will give you yet another perspective on what all goes on behind the scenes to make the show happen and you might actually like it! As an added bonus do it enough so when you goto your driver schools you will be much farther ahead of the curve for both the classroom and on track sessions. Our hours can be long, the weather can suck but what you learn can be invaluable when it comes time to wheel to wheel.

I was working turn 1 at Road Atlanta for the 09 December event when a S2000 TT car kept pushing and pushing before finally the snap oversteer got em sending them into the wall drivers left.... on it's side. The guy only had the TT roll bar and a softtop, got lucky that day... thought I was going to be responding to something incredibly nasty.

Can't be there all three days. We are going to Orlando on Thursday evening to see a trade show on Friday, then we're going to be in Gainesville Saturday AM for a white coat ceremony for my boss' older son, who is graduating soon with his PharmD from UF, and then that afternoon we'll head to RA. Not sure if we'll make it to the track for any activities before they close Saturday. Stay overnight, spend Sunday at the track, and drive the 5 hours home to get ready for work on Monday!

Corner working does sound fun. It seems like I did some a long time ago for motorcycle road racing at Oak Hill raceway in East Texas, but I won't swear to it. I had a good buddy of mine who had already gotten a racing license, and he rode my race motorcycle in that event. I think I worked corners when he was on track, and worked the pits when he wasn't racing, to help prep. Busy weekend, but fun!