12 replies to this topic

[Brandon]

Is there a difference in these on the market? Which one is best?
I do have a Traqmate (but not the 'multi-input' block yet) so data logging isn't a must but would be nice to have in the future.

Innovate Motorsports has one for a couple Benjamins which is about what I was anticipating spending on it but wasn't certain if I could get away with a cheap-o unit just to get some AFR's during dyno sessions.

Thoughts/opinions/ideas?

TIA!
Brandon

[davew]

Any dyno worth paying for should have a wideband set-up that connects directly to the dyno and can be graphed with the hp/torque readings.

Dave

[Todd Green]

I use the Innovate MTX-L it was simple to install (assuming you can weld or find a welder for the bung) and was easy to hook up to my DL-1 for data logging. Fits right into the left eyeball vent once you pull out the grate. There is some intersting data to be found in the corners if you have an AFM (for 1.6 owners.)

+1 for what Dave said if you are just looking to do this for dyno runs, they'll have their own wideband that they'll clip to the end of your exhaust.

[Muda]

I inherited an MTX-L in my new car and, quite frankly, I don't like it. The bouncing pseudo analog dial is distracting and bullsh*t boy racer stuff. What you need to know is what the digital readout tells you. Also, these gauges are worthless unless you regularly calibrate them. The only way to do this on the MTX series seems to be to unplug the O2 sensor. My plug was melted as it was placed too close to the exhaust and not shielded. My old Innovate LC-1 had longer cables to keep the important stuff cool and dry and allowed you to put a momentary switch in the circuit so you can do a recalibration in the drivers seat. Available for ~$160 on eBay with a digital gauge that fits right into the vent. I'm going to replace mine. I'll give you a good deal on the MTX. Had an LC-1 for 4 years before it gave up the ghost. Going to get it rebuilt as a spare. They use the cheapest O2 sensor, ~$50. Sensors last about a season in race use. Have a spare handy.

[Todd Green]

My old Innovate LC-1 had longer cables to keep the important stuff cool and dry and allowed you to put a momentary switch in the circuit so you can do a recalibration in the drivers seat.

There are two variants of the MTX-L, one with a long cable (3844), and one with a short cable (3845). I ordered the long cable version (linked above) and can recalibrate from the cockpit. They all use the same Bosch O2 sensor (AFAIK). Don't even see the gauge while racing, so it doesn't distract me, but I bet you could just use the software to program the gauge green min to be > 22.4 and it'd never sweep.

[Brandon]

Any dyno worth paying for should have a wideband set-up that connects directly to the dyno and can be graphed with the hp/torque readings.

Dave

Ah, I did forget this little tidbit - thanks Dave. Obviously w/a cat-installed vehicle getting the AFR BEFORE the catalyst is always a 'good thing' but since we run catless having the sniffer at the end of the tail pipe would suffice.

Regardless, sounds like the Innovative one might not be the one to get - AEM it is!

[James York]

I use the Innovate LC-1 like others here, and its ok. It flakes out on occasion and goes to top of scale if you idle in the hot pits for a short time during a session (could just be my unit, as I have no idea why). It also burns out the O2 sensors frequently by what I understanding is overheating the moisture element in the probe.

But, I have got it and don't feel like changing it.

[Jim Boemler]

My AEM unit has been working just fine for six years.

[Alberto]

I've had an Innovate in my "street" car for a few years now. Works well. Hasn't burnt out. Is still accurate. Install and wiring is a tricky and you need to follow the instructions with regards to the grounds and also making sure positive is a clean signal. Don't really need it for the street but I have used it to tune my idle and cruise cells for optimal mpg and reference it now and then when on boost but the boost map was tuned on the dyno so don't really have to screw around much there.

Not sure what value I'd get from it in the SM. Only time you really need it is for tuning as far as I can tell. I'm certainly not going to be looking at it during a race.

The PLX is also a good setup. I understand it is easier to install and less finicky with regards to grounding and such. The way it reads and translates the signal from the O2 sensor is different. There has been some in depth discussions on that topic on some forums. , their gauges are well integrated too.

[Bench Racer]

Not sure what value I'd get from it in the SM. Only time you really need it is for tuning as far as I can tell. I'm certainly not going to be looking at it during a race.

Air density changes with variances in air temp & humidity during the day. Only way to keep the AF ratio ideal is to change at the track.

I have the Innovate in my 1990 SM including the AFgauge mounted in the left corner of the OEM gauge area. Nothing to taking a look on a straightaway. To rich or to lean, make a slight rotation of the AFM. I have a fuel pressure regulator/gauge that isn't
installed at this time. When I do install, I'll continue looking at the AF on the straights & adjust the fuel pressure per some learning during Dyno runs. 1/8th turn to change AF ratio by X ammount, 1.4 turn & so on. When I go on track if it's to lean, that will be called paddock now.

[Jim Drago]

Air density changes with variances in air temp & humidity during the day. Only way to keep the AF ratio ideal is to change at the track.

I have the Innovate in my 1990 SM including the AFgauge mounted in the left corner of the OEM gauge area. Nothing to taking a look on a straightaway. To rich or to lean, make a slight rotation of the AFM. I have a fuel pressure regulator/gauge that isn't
installed at this time. When I do install, I'll continue looking at the AF on the straights & adjust the fuel pressure per some learning during Dyno runs. 1/8th turn to change AF ratio by X ammount, 1.4 turn & so on. When I go on track if it's to lean, that will be called paddock now.

David
Not sure you are aware.. I run the innovates as well, they stink
Your innovate WILL always read .4-.6 richer than the car actually is running. We have tested at least 10, all within that range even after calibrated multiple times. I fudge the scale on traqmate, but if looking at the gauge, keep that in mind. Compare to dyno.
We bought calibration gas for the dyno, it reads exactly 13.0, dyno sensor dead nuts 13.0, innovates all 12.4-12.6, everytime

[Zauskycop]

I have the AEM, and with its analog output, it works very well with my traqdash to check the AF after a race....no looking down on straights.

[Bench Racer]

Jim, thanks for the heads up. I'm patiently waiting to get on the Loshak/Meller DynoPack. Will compare/confirm with their wideband. Have two spuds in the SD after the down pipe. Also want to prove to myself which AF ratio adjuster is better.

Because it's rich is most likely why I'm slow & have time to look while on the straights.