Jump to content

Photo

Hoosier Wear

- - - - - Hoosier

  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1
Mike Asselta

Mike Asselta

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Location:Overland Park, KS
  • Region:Kansas City
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:70
I'm interested in hearing from everyone about tire management for the Hoosiers. Here are my observations after four nationals within the top and the data is confusing:

Assumptions:
1) we're running within the top 3 as far as fast lap times. I think some of the newer/slower cars may see very different data.
2) we're rotating, but not pre-heat cycling the tires, as recommended by Hoosier
3) starting pressures 28-29 depending on corner and air temp, ending pressure 36
4) car weight 2350

Race 1 - 2nd heat cycle. Low tire wear track. Tires perform consistently, very grippy and fast
Race 2 - 4th heat cycle. Low tire wear track. Tires as good as previous race...no fall off. Fast lap late in the race
Race 3 - 1st heat cycle. High wear track. One tire is pretty much shot.
Race 4 - 3rd heat cycle. High wear track. All tires ruined and did not grip through the whole race.

I don't see any way to run a tire in a race passed the fourth heat cycle, and only then if air temperatures and the track pavement cooperate.

When the grip on the Hoosiers is good, its actually great. One cycle too many and they seem to be junk.

Are these observations consistent with others turning relatively fast laps? Is it worth heat cycling before using? I know many of the first place finishes are coming on fresh-out-of-the-box tires.

This isn't a budget question...just an absolute speed question from someone that needs all the help he can get to run up front.
Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#2
Blake Clements

Blake Clements

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 305 posts
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:6

This isn't a budget question...just an absolute speed question from someone that needs all the help he can get to run up front.


Jim Drago says buy a '99. :)
  • Kevin Anderson likes this

Blake Clements

http://www.blakeclements.com - Driver Coaching, Consulting, & Video/Data Analysis.

OPM Autosports/SP Induction Systems/X-Factor Racing/G-Loc Brakes/Traqmate/Bell Helmets

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver BFG Supertour Winner -

#3
KRS

KRS

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Location:Chicago
  • Region:Sendiv
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:18
Mike I am glad to see what you've posted. We ran these tires occasionally in NASA enduro races the past few years and frankly they were awesome. I've noticed on our 2 cars they seem to wear faster now and frankly as you pointed out, don't take as many heat cycles. They used to be good to the end. Wonder if Hoosier changed the compound once we switched?
Donor - Made PayPal donation Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#4
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2
I have yet to wear out a Hoosier, I have been racing them up to 5-6 sessions, practicing shuffling around 8-10. After that they still seem to have more than half the tread left and pretty good grip. Ideally I try to race under 4 session tires though.

They definitely last the longest when you follow Hoosiers recommendations on breaking in. If you have the ability.. It is best to run and sit for a week. What I have been "trying' to do, is qualify on Stickers as I have a mental block scrubbing sticker Hoosiers in a practice session. Get off of them in 4-6 laps and let sit. Let sit a week if you can, 24 hours or more or in worst case.

Or you can always just Buy a 99 as Blake says.. :sorry:
  • Alex Bolanos likes this

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#5
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

I have yet to wear out a Hoosier,


It can be done however, last year I corded a Hoosier at VIR and it was so bad that it started to wobble going down the track the steel cords were busting and the tire was getting lumpy.

I can't tell you how many heat cycles I had on them but it was a bunch. went into the brake zone going into turn one pretty hot and it just started smoking and coming apart.

the point is unlike the Toyo which you can safley run down to the bone, when the Hoosier goes bald, if you dare drive it to that point its a weapon, against you.

Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#6
DrDomm

DrDomm

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 889 posts
  • Location:Binghamton, NY
  • Region:NER
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:46
Hmmm...this stuff is all a bit over my head, but I'm curious.

So, is 36 a good hot pressure? I thought Hoosier said 38-40.
Domm Leuci
--because someone commented that we should all post our names, and not be anonymous. I agree.
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#7
svvs

svvs

    do they sell spec training wheels yet?

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 518 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Region:NYR
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:12?
We ran hoosiers at NJMP Thunderbolt in the 12 hour. We were cording front tires in about four and a half to six hours.

Leaving a set on my car and not rotating them....running them as "heat cycled" by Phils Tire Service, I corded a front left on my car in about five hours of track time at an open track event.

I still haven't figured them out. Burning up the last of my toyos and toyo bucks from last year, then giving them another try. They are most certainly easier to drive than the toyos......so maybe I'm not pushing hard enough.

Vick
www.volko.com
Black SM/SM2/"Slap Bracelet Throwback" #12 in the Northeast....if the car was made in the early 90's it should look like it.

1.6L forever!  Bring on your '99's and '01's!

Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Donor - Made PayPal donation

#8
Bruce Andersen

Bruce Andersen

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Location:Chicago
  • Region:Central/South
  • Car Year:2003
  • Car Number:17
I used to think that they would last a long time (way beyond the point where they fell off, i.e. 4-6 heat cycles), until I ran them at two high-wear tracks recently. Then I experienced excessive wear. You have to be careful of them on tighter tracks or they can grain and fall apart. They remind me of the Toyo's after the Tsunami when they would get destroyed easily (or more easily seemingly).

As for heat cycling them in practice, I gave that up. It seems silly to waste the best heat cycle when they really are only grippy for 4-6 cycles anyway. I like Drago's idea of using them for qualifying then letting them sit.

They do seem to work best when you throw a set of stickers on before a race, but it tends to accelerate the wear/fall off so that they only last 3-4 heat cycles before falling off.
  • Alex Bolanos and Keith Andrews like this

Bruce Andersen
Senson Racing Group


#9
Andrew Warren

Andrew Warren

    Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 25 posts
  • Location:Basking Ridge, NJ
  • Region:NNJR
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:51
I made the mistake of going out on Hoosier stickers one race at NJMP thunderbolt. Needless to say, I ruined them. The following weekend they became dangerously slippery - qualifying i was easilyl 1.5-2 seconds off pace, and during the race (~5 heat cycle) they became pretty much corded. I went from dicing it up for 2nd position to barely keeping up with the guys still running toyo's. I pulled myself out because it became too much to handle.

Pardon my sloppy driving.


Andrew Warren #51 SM NNJR Build Blog From Start 2 Finish
Posted Image

#10
Muda

Muda

    ComingToAMirrorNearYou

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 365 posts
  • Location:East
  • Region:WDC
  • Car Year:1999
Andy, she's a bit assey, don't you think?
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#11
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2
I would think set up or track... not 5 cycles,Hoosiers or the fact you raced them as stickers. I have done that numerous times and never close to cording a Hoosier

Jim

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#12
svvs

svvs

    do they sell spec training wheels yet?

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 518 posts
  • Location:NYC
  • Region:NYR
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:12?
I'm wondering if NJMP is harder on tires than we thought? I mean the octopus does put a lot of wear on things.

Vick
www.volko.com
Black SM/SM2/"Slap Bracelet Throwback" #12 in the Northeast....if the car was made in the early 90's it should look like it.

1.6L forever!  Bring on your '99's and '01's!

Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Donor - Made PayPal donation

#13
tburas56

tburas56

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Location:FL
  • Region:South East
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:56
This passed week at road America I raced on 6 session tires. They never fell off, last three laps were great. I race homestead on 9 session Hoosiers. You do have to change the car for the loss of grip as you go. But never corded one.
Donor - Made PayPal donation SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America Majors Winner - BFG Supertour Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Grand-Am Winner in a Mazda - Grand-Am Winner in a Mazda MX5 Cup Winner - Has won a Race in the MX5Cup.com Series We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#14
Tom Sager

Tom Sager

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts
  • Location:Chicago Suburbs
  • Region:Central
  • Car Year:1996
  • Car Number:94

This passed week at road America I raced on 6 session tires. They never fell off, last three laps were great. I race homestead on 9 session Hoosiers. You do have to change the car for the loss of grip as you go. But never corded one.


Todd, you forgot to finish your comment.

"You do have to change the car for the loss of grip as you go."

You forgot to say how to change the car. Some choices might be:

1. Add more negative camber
2. Soften sway bars
3. Adjust tire pressure
4. I have no clue, ask my crew chief :D
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#15
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

Todd, you forgot to finish your comment.

"You do have to change the car for the loss of grip as you go."

You forgot to say how to change the car. Some choices might be:

1. Add more negative camber
2. Soften sway bars
3. Adjust tire pressure
4. I have no clue, ask my crew chief :D


We just let Todd drive.. The rule is no wrenches or tools for Todd :)

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#16
DrDomm

DrDomm

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 889 posts
  • Location:Binghamton, NY
  • Region:NER
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:46
So, is 13 sessions too much? Are they supposed to be so slippery? I just hate throwing away tires when it looks like there's still tons of rubber left on them. Grrr....
Domm Leuci
--because someone commented that we should all post our names, and not be anonymous. I agree.
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#17
HoneyBadger - BrianW

HoneyBadger - BrianW

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

So, is 13 sessions too much? Are they supposed to be so slippery? I just hate throwing away tires when it looks like there's still tons of rubber left on them. Grrr....


I am finding that in most conditions, 5 or 6 sessions is too much.
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#18
James York

James York

    AKA Cajun Miata Man; Overdog Driver

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 898 posts
  • Location:Texas, SWDiv
  • Region:Houston
  • Car Year:2003
  • Car Number:03

So, is 13 sessions too much? Are they supposed to be so slippery? I just hate throwing away tires when it looks like there's still tons of rubber left on them. Grrr....


Depends on your goal. Can you drive on them, sure as long as you got rubber. Will the tires be competative? No.

James York


sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA

powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN


2003 Spec Miata
#03

Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#19
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2
It also depends on track... Some tracks need newer tires than other. Sandlns pole lap was set on 8 session Hoosiers and Buras ran on Steyns take off Hoosiers at Road America with roughly the same amount of heat cycles.. I was the sissy in the bunch opting for newer tires, just in case :)

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#20
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

It also depends on track... Some tracks need newer tires than other. Sandlns pole lap was set on 8 session Hoosiers and Buras ran on Steyns take off Hoosiers at Road America with roughly the same amount of heat cycles.. I was the sissy in the bunch opting for newer tires, just in case :)


!.6 secret?? As they get older the lack of corner grip is compensated by better straight away speed? Anyone have data that actually shows this...or not? Just a thought....

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Hoosier

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users