35 replies to this topic

[Adax]

http://hansdevice.co...table-Announced

Never noticed this being an issue with mine but may be benefical to some.

Alan

[Glenn]

http://hansdevice.co...table-Announced

Never noticed this being an issue with mine but may be benefical to some.

Alan

Like MS Windows.....Always has to be a "new and improved" verson to keep the masses buying! I HATE my HANS and dont believe it will do CRAP in the type of accidents we experience the most, but the rules are the rules.......

[Todd Tagget]

My NecksGen is already adjustable ...

[Tom Sager]

Like MS Windows.....Always has to be a "new and improved" verson to keep the masses buying! I HATE my HANS and dont believe it will do CRAP in the type of accidents we experience the most, but the rules are the rules.......

I don't like wearing the HANS either but after using it last year in a big front end wreck, I think we are all much safer wearing one. It really worked well. I could feel it restrain my head movement forward and I had no soreness whatsoever that day, the next day or anytime thereafter.

[Sphinx]

I've been wearing a HANS ever since my first event (a spousal requirement). I've never had problems with it, except one. I find that after a spin, I can't turn around and see an all-clear from the corner workers.

[Jamz14]

Glenn,

I have had the opportunity to listen to a lecture from the doctor that was involved with the devlopment of the Hans device. It appeared that the science behind the device is sound. Does the device help with what you describe as the most common types of accidents seen in SM? Maybe not. But I personally feel that it absolutely saves lives from basilar skull fracture injuries seen in all kinds of racing. I think that this is pretty easy to track and prove too. Simply look at the number of basilar skull fracture deaths from drivers wearing Hans devices. If you no longer see this type of injury......then it works. There has been no doubt that drivers have lost their lives from this type of injury. Is it important that this is the most common type of injury? Not in my opinion. To me, what is important is that the chance for a low potential but life threatening injury is reduce very effectively.

Just my opinion. Not a safety expert.

[dstevens]

I don't like the HANS either. Feels like a choke collar but it was suggested I go to a 30* from a 20* due to my size. Haven't tried it yet and if I'm cleared to race again, I'll think real hard about a Necksgen though it's not approved for NASCAR though it is SFI.

The HANS in particular is sort of a one trick pony. The purpose is to prevent basilar skull fracture from abrupt forward motion which has a survival rate of about 10% with limited mobility very possible if you do survive or even meningitis. Several big names, including Senna , Bettenhausen and Vukovich (Earnhardt is probably the best known in modern US racing) have died from the injury. You don't have to be going that fast. It's the jerk from the stop that gets you. As I've said prior, I don't think it should be mandatory but it is a good idea. Even in the lower division local NASCAR circuit, (Div 3 and 4) a head and neck will be phased in by 2014.

On Edit: I just read the press release and this portion while true, is disingenuous and not indicative of basilar skull fracture injuries...

A study conducted by the Charlotte Observer found that racing deaths in the U.S. actually increased in the decade after Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s fatal accident at Daytona in 2001 due to fatalities on weekly short tracks and drag strips.

Up until a few years ago the Observer did keep a running tally of racing deaths US wide from hobby to pros. But very few, if any IIRC were basilar skull fractures. Most are/were cardiac events that happened off track, typically just after a race. In comparison much fewer on track deaths occur though they do happen. In other words, middle aged hobby racers are more likely to die from a cardiac episode than a basilar skull fracture.

[Glenn]

Well my HANS must work via smoke and mirrors then. When seated, belted in and the HANS on, I can move my head forward/chin down to the point of discomfort and NO noticable resistance from the HANS straps. And yes it was assembled by a professional. I have only raced with it 2 x now, but I have ZERO level of confidence that it will protect me from what it was DESIGNED to do! Should have gone with my "gut" and got the Hybrid. If I knew then I could have got the hans like attachments I would have for sure as my main reason for ruling it out was the stupid quick release system.

[MPR22]

http://www.thatsraci...ype==

Road racing sure seems safe compared to small oval and drag racing.

[Glenn]

http://www.thatsraci...ype==

Road racing sure seems safe compared to small oval and drag racing.

I counted 58 or so from road racing, thats 12% of the total. No data of "participation" to see what the avg per entry would work out to be.

[MPR22]

several of the road race deaths were from Karts

[Jamz14]

But the report said that it specifically excluded deaths from youth kart racing.

[Zauskycop]

Well my HANS must work via smoke and mirrors then. When seated, belted in and the HANS on, I can move my head forward/chin down to the point of discomfort and NO noticable resistance from the HANS straps. And yes it was assembled by a professional. I have only raced with it 2 x now, but I have ZERO level of confidence that it will protect me from what it was DESIGNED to do! Should have gone with my "gut" and got the Hybrid. If I knew then I could have got the hans like attachments I would have for sure as my main reason for ruling it out was the stupid quick release system.

Glen, the first time I tried it on, I noticed the same thing... Then I thought about it and realized that WHEN you are in a frontal collision you will press forward against your belts first. Try leaning hard into your belts and THEN moving your head...you will find a GREAT improvement and understand how the HANS works...

IMHO...

[Jamz14]

Unless this report shows that the cause of death is from basilar skull fractures, it has no relevence on the effectiveness of a hans device. As Dave pointed out, the device is strictly limited to protecting from BSFs. It will not help in fiery balls of top fuel dragsters, running head first into transporters, coil springs in the face, ETC. Its is exactly one component, for one purpose, in a network of mandated safety gear.

I have a very hard time believing that there is a conspiracy of doctors, engineers, and sporting officials, that have all gotten together for the sole purpose of selling us expensive, useless safety gear.

Dave may be right and it isn't good to mandate this and it should be optional. But that case can be extroplated to include optional fire extinguishers, rollcages, harnesses, and even helmets. Whether we like it or not, the sporting organizations have a liability when putting on events. And to make these affordable for us, they have to comply with insurance requirments. And they need the insurance in the first place because some moron that signed the waiver, still felt it was appropriate to litigate the orginizations when they crashed and burned. Dave is also right that we are not talking about an injury that has a small chance of drastically affecting your life if you sustain it. If it happens, you are dead, or useless.

Whether it is mandated or not, I think it would be tough to dispute the effectiveness of the device. There is a reason we have the phrase "better safe than sorry". One of the most common pieces of advise I hear both on this forum and others is, never cut pennies on safety gear. So lets live by this saying (pun intended).

I agree that the quick release system is kinda dumb. And the releases are heavy too. But quick releases for the hans are an option. It is just as effective with hard attachments to the helmet. I also regret getting this option, but I don't regret getting the system, and I don't begrudge NASA mandating it. Maybe the people that monitor this site and sit on the SCCA committees that look at this can chime in, but I would be surprised if the SCCA doesn't mandate some sort of neck restraint requirment in the future.

ok, don't freak everyone. Im done pontificating.

[Keith Novak]

I would be surprised if the SCCA doesn't mandate some sort of neck restraint requirment in the future.

They already do.

[Jim Boemler]

It's a matter of cost versus return, Jamz14. At some point we get into the absurd, where we throw money at every corner case that can be identified. A good example is coming to next year's MX-5. The hood is being made so it pops up when you hit a pedestrian, so that when he bounces off the hood, the hood won't be so close to the engine that the person's head is damaged by the engine. I mean, who could make this stuff up? But somehow somebody identified a particular mode of injury, and made a rule to prevent at least a few of those injuries. And I don't think it's really too much of a stretch to think that there's a profit motive somewhere in that, and in H&N restraints. The famous "if it saves just one child" argument is in play here.

[ryoung99]

http://www.thatsraci...ype== Road racing sure seems safe compared to small oval and drag racing.

That is a link I wish I could unsee..... four people on the first two pages were either friends, or I was there when it happened.

As opposed to comparing track types, take a look at the ages? The study that would be most interesting would be to see the mortaility rates of racers based on age. I could not help but notice the number in their 40's and 50's, which by my general observation does not make up the lions share of racers (more in their 20's and 30's).

[fishguyaz]

didnt the defender thing come out with this design already?
the defender cannot be used because of the sfi rating it didnt get.
so now HANS "steals" that part of the design.
I own 2 HANS devices, a 20 for my SM, and a 30 for my FF. one device would have been nice.

as far as working, I know first hand from my own experience that they work as advertised.
I had a slow hit where i t-boned a guy doing something really dumb while trying to exit the track.
maybe 40 by the time i hit him. the teathers got tight, and my forward neck motion was stopped.
the restraining motion was significant enough that my jaw did get a bit dislocated and was sore for a few day. that was with a mouth gaurd being worn as well.
the HANS device works, and like a harness and helmet, i dont need a rule to make me use one.

oh yeah, in a FF race i saw a guy hit a wall so hard that the impact broke out the bar where the belts mount to. the guy hit a wall at ~ 30 degree angle going 100+. he survived, but said that his head would have been found somewhere in the infeild if the device didnt restrain his helmet from moving forward.
people were also "forced" to use rollbars, and then firesuits back way in the day. imagine that.
I have avery close freind who is quadraplegic resulting from a neck injury so i know what life is like after a significant neck trauma
i wont go on track w/o wearing one
Josh

[Rob Burgoon]

Our cars don't really demand fire suits. How many SM do you know of that had a big fire in the cabin? A small campfire coming out of the shifter boot doesn't count.

[CruzanTom]

I don't need no freekin safety equipment - I've got Iron Balls


Take these fellows here, who, as a 1912 copy of Popular Mechanics tells us, rode railroad tracks down a freaking mountain at 120 miles per hour.
Oh, but don't be too impressed. If you look at the protective gear they had, you can see they were wearing hats, and their rail-sleds were made of advanced materials like wood, or as they called it "tree pork."
As the article says, the formula to make a sport attractive is "two parts novelty and one part danger."
http://bit.ly/NJtluk