163 replies to this topic

[Mike Collins]

During the Saturday SM race Steve Bertok made a heroic move from a couple of rows back to time the start perfectly and come down the inside (he did mow the lawn a little) and take the lead. In doing so he had side to side contact with Lee York (P1) in the 75 car (my car, I was the entrant) forcing Lee into the 70 car of Brian Price (P2). Both cars were knocked off track and able to continue from the back. Both cars are in a points battle for the MARRS championship at the end of the season.

Not many of you know, Steve and I went to drivers school together, shared the same instructor and become long time friends and work together in our businesses.

I protested Steve, it was upheld. He got moved to the back. Steve and I are still good friends. We talked all about it and want to share with everyone. Use the system. Too many people come on this forum and complain about contact. Steve made a low percentage move, he is a good driver with a fast car. In hind sight I know he would do it different next time.

If you want action you need to take action.

I know Steve plans to post on this topic as well. I know there are some videos. Please feel free to share.

[Flyntgr]

I believe this is a good example of sportsmanship by both drivers. Using the rules to keep things manageable without hard feelings or reprisal is the way it should be-not NASCAR of old where guys used to duke it out in the infield.

I know for a fact that my cars have been hit many more times than I have hit others , mostly at some unsanctioned tracks,where I have observed that without sanctioning bodies like SCCA and NASA, the "good ole boy" mentality sometimes takes over to allow the "in group" to get away with contact without any repercussion. That just makes matters worse, encouraging more contact by the favored drivers, while discouraging everyone else from trying to compete.

I have made mistakes in driving too fast in a couple of places where I should have backed off just a little, almost always without contact, but I have learned from those goofs and have not repeated the same mistakes over and over. And if I need to be sanctioned for such a mistake I hope I will take it in stride and learn from that, too. There IS a lot to be learned about proper racing etiquette. Thanks for this post, Mike.

[Panic Motorsports]

Like Mike said, I made a low percentage move, and it didn't work. Admitted. When you have a chance to look back, and see things from different angles, it's easy to say "dumbass". In the heat of battle, with a big hole in front of you, I'd wager to say 99% of us would have tried it too, we are racing after all. I made peace with both the other drivers before the paper had even settled because it's the right thing to do, regardless of pending rulings. At the end of the day, I took my lumps, and we move on. There was no malice in the move on track, and no malice in the protest. Sure, in the middle of it, we yell at each other, but grab a beer and talk about it when things calm down.

[Glenn]

Glad to see all have worked out their differences and are still friends! Great race Sunday Steve with the special "aero" package on the nose.

[DrDomm]

What if the leaders see the "dumbass" move coming, and avoid contact (by slowing/altering line). They lose their positions, and then (let's say) go on to lose the race to the "dumbass". Now "dumbass" thinks this was a great pass, and he keeps doing it race after race. (Can you protest a pass that doesn't have contact? Would you?)

This is what I think keeps happening at race starts. Slight contact, but (usually) no real carnage, without repercussion, leads to overly aggressive driving. Eventually there's carnage or someone's race is ruined.

Just food for thought. Not sure what the answer is.

[Mike Collins]

Domm, I write a lot of paper. People know this, so people gladly throw paper at me and I am fine with that. I will tell you knowing that I make certain I make good decisions.

People need to stop complaining (not you Domm) about lack of rules enforcement when nobody ask to have the rules enforced.

[FTodaro]

Like Mike said, I made a low percentage move, and it didn't work. Admitted. When you have a chance to look back, and see things from different angles, it's easy to say "dumbass". In the heat of battle, with a big hole in front of you, I'd wager to say 99% of us would have tried it too, we are racing after all. I made peace with both the other drivers before the paper had even settled because it's the right thing to do, regardless of pending rulings. At the end of the day, I took my lumps, and we move on. There was no malice in the move on track, and no malice in the protest. Sure, in the middle of it, we yell at each other, but grab a beer and talk about it when things calm down.

we have all been there, reviewing tape and making a move that we later regret, anyone who says they have not been there, either is full of BS or not racing much.

[Dan Tiley]

He may have some dirt under his fingernails, but Steve's a classy dude. I give Steve alot of credit for taking the initiative to accept responsibility and move on. I bet the fellas involved may even get a discount on shiny new Panic Motorsports fenders . For what it's worth, Steve (and crew) have fixed a lot more competitor cars at the track than they've damaged and have never asked for anything in return.

Now I personally have NEVER made a move on track that I regret... in fact, certainly not at the same track, at the same event 1 year ago

Are we having fun yet?

--Dan

[DrDomm]

Domm, I write a lot of paper. People know this, so people gladly throw paper at me and I am fine with that. I will tell you knowing that I make certain I make good decisions.

Ok, I haven't had the pleasure of either throwing paper or having it thrown at me. I guess my point was that rules are only enforced when when an action leads to something bad. We haven't seen the video yet, but one of my common complaints is people jumping the start. I guess it only gets penalized when cars get knocked off track and someone complains...I mean throws paper. This seems to be the only sport where you have to ask for the rules to be enforced.

I realize enforcement is tough, but I watched a lower class car fly by me under the starters stand with double yellow flags waving. Oh well.

[Keith Novak]

This may be dependent on regions but at least among racers in mine, it's widely perceived that the SCCA officials highly discourage throwing paper. I've heard it many times from many people.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

During the Saturday SM race Steve Bertok made a heroic move from a couple of rows back to time the start perfectly and come down the inside (he did mow the lawn a little) and take the lead. In doing so he had side to side contact with Lee York (P1) in the 75 car (my car, I was the entrant) forcing Lee into the 70 car of Brian Price (P2). Both cars were knocked off track and able to continue from the back. Both cars are in a points battle for the MARRS championship at the end of the season.

Not many of you know, Steve and I went to drivers school together, shared the same instructor and become long time friends and work together in our businesses.

I protested Steve, it was upheld. He got moved to the back. Steve and I are still good friends. We talked all about it and want to share with everyone. Use the system. Too many people come on this forum and complain about contact. Steve made a low percentage move, he is a good driver with a fast car. In hind sight I know he would do it different next time.

If you want action you need to take action.

I know Steve plans to post on this topic as well. I know there are some videos. Please feel free to share.

you are right mike collins so may i ask why you did not protest danny styn when he punnted you hummmmmmm dodble standard just saying can you show that vidio

still love you sheetz

[Bench Racer]

An incident from last fall at an SCCA race.

The green flag, the midle opens, I fill the middle, a car two rows froward gets punted 180* to track direction. I can T bone the punted car, hit a car on either side of me, I breeze the brakes thinking I'll take the first opening. WRONG, a driver from behind forgot how to use his brake pedal, he used my car for a brake. (He reads this site)I protest & an told by the SOM, "it was a racing incident". No crap SOM, isn't everything that happens on track a racing incident. Oh, I could have hit 1 or all 3 cars but didn't hit anyone.

Seems there should have been a bit of rule 6.11.1. On Course Driver Conduct in play. But then the SOM's would have had to found someone at fault.

[James York]

This may be dependent on regions but at least among racers in mine, it's widely perceived that the SCCA officials highly discourage throwing paper. I've heard it many times from many people.

Some do. But don't let it sway your resolve if it is justified. I think I have protested a driver once or twice. The steward tried to discourage me, but I told him to get his form.

Another time they were going to penalize me for a pass under yellow, and I said no way. I told him I would protest the penalty as I had video showing otherwise. They withdrew the penalty when they knew I was not going to have my mind changed and would file a protest.

Both times, though, I was repectful but firm and kept in mind they are volunteers that allow me to actually race.

[Mike Collins]

you are right mike collins so may i ask why you did not protest danny styn when he punnted you hummmmmmm dodble standard just saying can you show that vidio

still love you sheetz

I threw paper on Danny. I did withdraw it. Outlying circumstances and the officials on hand helped me decide the best outcome. Same outcome via different path.

[Race Engineering]

As many of you know, I've known Steve and raced with him for over 8 years. And first I will say this: Steve Bertok is a stand up guy, hard core racer and much needed parts supplier to many of us out there. I am 100% sure Steve's intent was to simply make the pass and I am sure if he had the ability to roll back the clock he would have made the necessary adjustments to have the outcome be different. That having been said, I've known the other parties involved for quite some time, and they are also stand up guys and very good racers. So I guess what I am ultimately trying to say is it was just one of those racing deals and unfortunately these things are going to happen from time to time. I think all parties handled themselves in a very professional manner and let the stewards decide.

[LarryKing]

kept in mind they are volunteers that allow me to actually race

[Panic Motorsports]

Though I have watched this many times, it still makes me cringe. Sorry again guys!

[Ron Alan]

Ok, I'm going to bite and ask...what was the protest for? Sorry, I have no point of reference or know the track.

[Panic Motorsports]

Avoidable contact.

[High Chair]

Don't come to the se with those types of protest. They will have to extend into Monday before they all get resolved.