163 replies to this topic

[High Chair]

you are right mike collins so may i ask why you did not protest danny styn when he punnted you hummmmmmm dodble standard just saying can you show that vidio

still love you sheetz

Because Mike should not have been there in the first place! You do remember he was the only car in his class right

[DrDomm]

I guess that's avoidable contact. You could also avoid contact by not racing, and living in a bubble. I think the outside car could have avoided that just as well. It looks like Steve stayed all the way to the inside. While the "preferred line" for the outside car might be to cut down to the apex, Steve's car was well alongside. I assume the outside car just didn't see him or expect him there. I think on the start you have to expect that cars are going to be in places other than the typical racing line. That's my limited-experience opinion.

I'm not sure how he got such a great start, though. Massive power? At first I thought it was because he was hanging back (grrr!), but he cought up before the start. Great start.

[Panic Motorsports]

I guess that's avoidable contact. You could also avoid contact by not racing, and living in a bubble. I think the outside car could have avoided that just as well. It looks like Steve stayed all the way to the inside. While the "preferred line" for the outside car might be to cut down to the apex, Steve's car was well alongside. I assume the outside car just didn't see him or expect him there. I think on the start you have to expect that cars are going to be in places other than the typical racing line. That's my limited-experience opinion. I'm not sure how he got such a great start, though. Massive power? At first I thought it was because he was hanging back (grrr!), but he cought up before the start. Great start.

I've been pretty sharp on my starts this year, actually saw the green and was on the hammer before my radio guy called it to me. The power band on the 01's is a bit different, that start was a bit fast and I was in my sweet spot. I can't stand that laying back stuff either. Don't miss a shift in front of me, I'll bonk ya for sure. Wait, that's probably avoidable too....... Other videos show I did touch the grass, though I really didn't intend to (it's about 6" deep/high, not meant for driving across!) and that contributed to the locked wheels seen in pictures floating around.

[DrDomm]

Steve, I don't condone the "rubbin is racin" mentality, but I think your start there was good and clean...even if you kissed the grass and had a little wheel lock. On a start, you can't claim "racing line" and just shoot to the apex or expect to track out without someone there. Compromise is needed...and I think they call that "give 'n take" in NASCAR.

[Mike Collins]

What you don't see in Steve's video is that the car Steve had contact with was already three wide. The contact shoved the 75 into the 70 and both cars off the track. For Steve to get where he was he had to go through the grass to get there and then locked up the wheels sliding in to the 75.

It was close to great. The unfortunate part of the incident is that it was a combined SARRC/MARRS race and the P1 and P2 cars were both MARRS cars and in a points battle for the year end podium in MARRS.

[FTodaro]

Don't come to the se with those types of protest. They will have to extend into Monday before they all get resolved.

In Great lakes, I have not seen much paper written either for cotact, and our officials don't like to do paperwork either. I will say that we are pretty good about going over to someone in the paddock and talking it out. Personally i think its just as effective, you either get people on the right path or you label them an Ash hole and know what your dealing with on track.

Generally when you are in the front 2 or 3 rows you come to expect some a certain level of mutual respect.

[Keith Andrews]

Ok I'll post my video when I get a chance. I was the car starting P3.

Dr. Doom - just so we all can understand your point, you are ok with the the guy starting P5 taking out P1and P2. They shouldn't have gotten in his way, right?

[Michael Novak]

I must be missing something as ??? 1. What ever grass he hit was nothing... 2. The crash occurs before either car is fully into the turn---The 75 car appears to have lots of on track room to go wider? 3. The speed of Steve's car appears that he was going to have a hard time staying on track if he didnt have the impact----but it happened before that happened so we cant tell.

[Mike Collins]

There was no room on the outside of the 75. The 70 car there and there was a car trying to be on the outside of the 70.

[DrDomm]

Ok I'll post my video when I get a chance. I was the car starting P3.

Dr. Doom - just so we all can understand your point, you are ok with the the guy starting P5 taking out P1and P2. They shouldn't have gotten in his way, right?

Keith, please re check my name. I'm assuming that was a typo.

I'm ok with a guy starting 5th and passing P1 if it's clean. By his video, it looks clean. By his video, it looks like P1 turns into him. Let's see your's, because it's very possible that his video is misleading. Though I would say that he should be judged by how things look from his perspective. In other words, he shouldn't be penalized if from his perspective this looked reasonable. And if it was 3 wide, he probably couldn't see that...I couldn't from his video.

Obviously, I'm not ok with anyone taking anyone else out. Duh. My point is that on the start, you can't claim the corner is yours just because you have the preferred line. This belief is part of what leads to a lot of the unnecessary contact at the beginning of races. When you're on the outside, you have to assume someone may try to fill that hole and adjust your line accordingly.

Anyway, I think this can be a good discussion and hope it doesn't turn into some personal pissing match.

[Rob Burgoon]

Need another camera, but it looks like 75 at fault from what I can see. SCCA rules right? Camera car needs to be afforded racing room and I never got to see if he had a shot at a graceful corner. Didn't appear to be 3 wide when it mattered, nor did the camera car appear to be in grass while braking.

Could certainly be mistaken. Need another angle.

[DrDomm]

It was close to great. The unfortunate part of the incident is that it was a combined SARRC/MARRS race and the P1 and P2 cars were both MARRS cars and in a points battle for the year end podium in MARRS.

"Completely stupid" should get you penalized, not "close to great".

Personally, I don't think it's fair to ask people who spend money to travel and race to stay out of others way just because they are racing for a championship. This incident was clearly not intentional. It's seriously too bad that anyone got taken out of this race. I just don't think it's fair to put that much blame on Steve. BTW, never met Steve or any of you. I'm not taking sides.

[Glenn]

I was 30 feet away from the incident, Steve's car would NEVER have made the corner as the LF wheel was locked up. The reason he made the turn is because he used the 75 car as his brakes.

[Mike Collins]

Steve's video does not give the incident justice. Not a single witness statement (over 12 of them) or video gave any interpretation that anyone but Steve was at fault.

Let me make this clear. Steve drove 2 wheels through the grass to get what appears to be the "inside" line into turn one. He locked the wheels up in the grass and slid onto the track. By using the 75 car, who had no reason to believe a car behind him on the start would be improving his position in the grass he was able to peen off the 75 and continue. If the 75 and 70 were not on the track Steve would have run long or put it in the wall on the far side.

Steve hit the 75 with enough force to shove it and the 70 off the far side of the track.

Had it been dry, or had he made it stick with no contact it would have been great. But the grass was wet, he did take two cars out, and it was a pretty low percentage move even on a good day. Steve did the right thing and made peace. I did the right thing and made sure the officials did their jobs.

Steve and I are fine with the outcome and continue to try to help others learn from this.

Wait for Keith to post his video.

[Rob Burgoon]

Also, credit to the pole car for not cheating the start like so many in my region.

[Rob Burgoon]

Mike, what second(s) of the video is he in the grass? I can't tell.

[Mike Collins]

I'd have to look at it again... Glenn and I were standing 25 feet from the incident when it happened. We both knew turn one was going to be "special"

You would have to know the track a little to understand how the road/grass is. The track did come back to him, but he was in no shape to slow down or negotiate the corner.

[brian price]

I was in the #70 car on the outside. I gave plenty of room to my left knowing someting like this mite happen. But what is hard to interpret in this video is the angle steve was going into this corner. As Glen pointed out, He would of had to make a hard lt turn to make it. That being said if it wer on a lap trying to out brake a car into T1, it is a good move. But as it turns out on the start with 3-4 or 5 wide, it didn't work.
Steve appoligised and gave me the parts to fix my car for the afternoon race 2 qualifying. I applaud him for that and have no problems with him. He made a mistake & we all make those from time to time Sometimes you just take yourself out, sometimes it involves other cars. I do not think he meant for any of this to happen......
By the way ,what a great track and the racing besides this incident was awesome. Even with the damage I was able to come through the field for a 6th overall finish from dead last..... with 1.5 inches of toe out in the LR wheel....
Sundays race was a blast with Myself S. Landy , & Lee York. it was a great battle all race long. I was able to pull out victory by a couple of thousants of a sec....

I want to thank Bret With RP PERFORMACE, Rich & Billy @ PERFORMANCE AUTOWORKS for the strong motor. TJ for all the help setting up and fixing the carnage....

Great weekend of racing, can't wait to go back next year......

[LarryKing]

It's great to hear people excited about racing at CMS. No events were held there for several years due to lack of interest.
I love rovals. Hope to be there next year.

[Jamz14]

I agree with Glenn, the car was never going to make the turn going in as hot and as tight to the corner as he was. At least this is what the camera appeared to show.