163 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

I'm still not sure it was more than 2 cars wide at the "chicken" point. Also, I wouldn't characterize it as anything resembling a dive bomb. I'll watch the videos again when another gets posted, but even though the camera car's speed/position/angle were suspect, he may have been alongside long enough and far enough to be reasonably afforded a wider exit.

Didn't look like he was going much faster than the car outside, but I need to rewatch.

[brian price]

I'm still not sure it was more than 2 cars wide at the "chicken" point. Also, I wouldn't characterize it as anything resembling a dive bomb. I'll watch the videos again when another gets posted, but even though the camera car's speed/position/angle were suspect, he may have been alongside long enough and far enough to be reasonably afforded a wider exit.

Didn't look like he was going much faster than the car outside, but I need to rewatch.

The photogragher that was there posted the pictures for the weekend. here is the link to them. look at them & let me know how you interpret them.....

http://art-racing.co.../race-start-11/

[screaming monkey]

An incident from last fall at an SCCA race.

The green flag, the midle opens, I fill the middle, a car two rows froward gets punted 180* to track direction. I can T bone the punted car, hit a car on either side of me, I breeze the brakes thinking I'll take the first opening. WRONG, a driver from behind forgot how to use his brake pedal, he used my car for a brake. (He reads this site)I protest & an told by the SOM, "it was a racing incident". No crap SOM, isn't everything that happens on track a racing incident. Oh, I could have hit 1 or all 3 cars but didn't hit anyone.

Seems there should have been a bit of rule 6.11.1. On Course Driver Conduct in play. But then the SOM's would have had to found someone at fault.

If it makes you feel any better, he hit me from behind later in the race. Too aggressive or slow reflexes? Not sure, but mine was avoidable. Afterward, he seemed to feel genuinely bad about it.

[Keith Andrews]

Here is a different point of view. I wasn't going to post this but Steve is ok with it so here you go.

[High Chair]

Here is a different point of view. I wasn't going to post this but Steve is ok with it so here you go.

From that camera it is pretty clear there was just no way to make that turn. If he could have made it stick then it would have been a great move but unfortunately that did not happen and he drove right into the 75 with the tires locked up causing the wreck. I am sure it was unintentional but still not excusable. Im glad he took responsibility for it as there are many drivers who would not have.
On a side note drivers may want to give the leaders at least the first corner since they did earn the front row and are likely as fast or faster than those starting behind them. Perfectly timed starts while legal usually only result in torn up cars.

[Keith Andrews]

Here is Sunday's start with a different result for the #90 devil car

[Jim Drago]

From that camera it is pretty clear there was just no way to make that turn. If he could have made it stick then it would have been a great move but unfortunately that did not happen and he drove right into the 75 with the tires locked up causing the wreck. I am sure it was unintentional but still not excusable. Im glad he took responsibility for it as there are many drivers who would not have.
On a side note drivers may want to give the leaders at least the first corner since they did earn the front row and are likely as fast or faster than those starting behind them. Perfectly timed starts while legal usually only result in torn up cars.

well said.. ( but I don't think the "if" was a possibility )

[Rob Burgoon]

Wow, long lockup. Had no idea from the original video. Almost worked! Might have if he was able to keep from locking. But yeah, he blew it. Nothing quite like another camera angle.

Still don't think he was in the grass though

[Panic Motorsports]

Here is Sunday's start with a different result for the #90 devil car

Devil car? really? and damn I'm glad I didn't collect the 75 car again..... whew!

[Keith Andrews]

Devil car? really? and damn I'm glad I didn't collect the 75 car again..... whew!

Hey it's the internet you got to hype it. Yeah I saw the #75 and thought here we are again, different day different deal.

[DrDomm]

Here is a different point of view. I wasn't going to post this but Steve is ok with it so here you go.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't post that. That clearly shows that Steve's car was locked up, and couldn't make the turn. I guess perspective does matter

[Keith Andrews]

Just to come back around to the point of the OP. If Mike doesn't protest Steve, I don't think I would have any reason to share my video with the Stewards. Steve made a clean pass on me. You can't see clearly in my video why the #7 hit me. I would put that hit in the racing incident category. So, unless a protest is filed for contact between #90 and #75/70 my video is pointless. It sucked for all but it was handled professionally by drivers and officials from my point of view.

I have had nothing but a positive experience with the volunteer officials here in the Southeast Florida to Virginia. The people at Charlotte were, as a group of about six people, fact finding. Their difficulty was pretty much the same thing that played out here. From one camera you can draw one conclusion from another it is a different story.

As always I learned a great deal, both on and off the track, this past weekend.

[Keith Andrews]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't post that. That clearly shows that Steve's car was locked up, and couldn't make the turn. I guess perspective does matter

Well, understand that Steve is a friend and SM mentor of mine. Steve and Jonathan at Panic Motorsports have supported me for the past one and a half years. Why would I want to subject him to a public hanging on the internet. The point of this thread, is that things were handled well. When this thread got to the point that the wrong decision had been made I needed to come forward as I did at the track. Understand?

[DrDomm]

I understand totally.

If the point of this thread is that "things were handled well", we can only make that judgement by knowing the protest and penalty were fair. Your video is necessary for that. Thanks for posting it.

[brian price]

I know Mike C was not happy, as well I was pissed after the race. After seeing Lee'S car, mine was not as bad, ... I went to Lee and asked him WTF.... he states he was hit. We had an understanding we would race clean for the MARRS championship.....I found out that it was Steve a short time later.. I went to talk to Steve before he even got out of his car. with the intentions of him denying the contact... He admitted it & immediately said he would help in any way or fashion to get my car fixed for the next qualifier.... That rite there is a Good guy..... hands down.... from that point on I give him big respect for the way he acted after the race.....
.
It is amazing to see different camera angles of the same incident , because just Steves video does draw a different conclusion then Kieth's. I do appreciate Keith showing his , it shows my side of the events....

[LarryKing]

Why would I want to subject him to a public hanging on the internet

On Mazdaracers??? Come on, that would never happen.

[Jamz14]

High Chair,

No possible way I am going to instruct my driver to give the pole sitters the first corner. No way, hale no. If he can take the first corner away from them within the rules and safely, by all means do so. Turns out that my driver is not the best qualifier. He is young and will someday be much better at it than he is today. But, he is a phenomenal starter and has always made up positions on the start and has always done so in a manner that has made me proud. The ones that agree with your position are the ones on the pole(or too far back to ever challenge for the lead). Those same people would have a much different opinion if starting from the 2nd or 3rd row. Exploit every advantage, this is what a racer will tell you. As long as it is clean, safe, and within the rules. If my driver was on pole, Id instruct him to do everything to convince you not to take the first corner away from him too.

Others,

That this corner was not doable for this driver WAS apparent from the first video. Glenn saw it, I saw it, others saw it. He was too tight, too fast, and probably on the grass. I don't know him, but sounds like Steve knew it too. The point of the thread wasn't to debate whether he was in the wrong. Always fun to do though.

[AJ Roderick]

The point of the thread wasn't to debate whether he was in the wrong. Always fun to do though.

We had other options?? lol

[Neil O]

I think High Chair just meant show a little respect to the front row or the racer that qualified in front of you. You have 25 - 30 minutes to show them you are faster. At the end of the day in club racing we walk a fine line. Yes we are racing but, it's not for money and usually it's a friend we are battling. We all have made mistakes. Admit it and move on like Steve did.

[Glenn]

FYI, in case yall didn't notice same stuff happens WAY back in the middle of the pack too

Mikes point was to show that the system does work, back to your normally scheduled program........