17 replies to this topic

[zzyx79]

Hey guys,

I just bought an SM a few months ago and just ran my first race. It's a very fun and exciting series! Anyways, the car I bought came with the smaller 24mm OD 1.6L adjustable front swaybar, instead of the larger 27mm OD 1.8L swaybar. I noticed that the front tire wear shows a need for more camber, despite the fact that I'm running about 2.7-2.8deg (maxed out with about 5/8" shock to bump stop clearance). I'm thinking of putting a 27mm bar back in to limit body roll and thus camber loss. Has anyone used the 24mm bar from the 27mm bar, and, if so, what were your impressions?

[Jim Boemler]

By the rules, you have to have the proper sway bar regardless of how it handles.

[zzyx79]

By the rules, you have to have the proper sway bar regardless of how it handles.

Well, per the 2012 rules, a 1st gen 1.8L SM has the option to run either the 24mm adjustable from the 1.6L or the 27mm non-adjustable. This is a legal tuning option.

[Keith Novak]

If memory serves, the rule was changed to allow the 1.6 bar because the 1.8 bar was too stiff and made the car pushy. I switched to the 1.6 and run it on the soft setting always unless I'm disconnecting it in the rain. You might see why you can't get more camber. Are you running the Fat Cat bumpstop kit? Are your control arms bent? I still get some wear running a bit over 3* but less than when I had camber similar to yours.

[DrDomm]

OMG! I didn't see this. Not sure if it was legal in 2011, but it isn't in the 2010 GCR.

"K-SPEC-M5-SUS8 or may use adjustable 24 mm front bar

from Eibach kit 0000-04-5302-EB.

Eibach kit - front / rear bars 0000-04-5303-EB

Front 27mm non-Adjustable

Rear 15mm Adjustable"

[Jim Boemler]

Well, per the 2012 rules, a 1st gen 1.8L SM has the option to run either the 24mm adjustable from the 1.6L or the 27mm non-adjustable. This is a legal tuning option.

Thanks for the correction (I tend to focus on the 1,6 rules, and have been away for a while).

[Ron Alan]

Thanks for the correction (I tend to focus on the 1,6 rules, and have been away for a while).

Really disappointing that a 2 year(season) old rule was unknown to you...your slipping clown Everyone in a 94-97 that I know switched back right away...I would stick with your 24mm bar!

[Jim Boemler]

Really disappointing that a 2 year(season) old rule was unknown to you...your slipping clown Everyone in a 94-97 that I know switched back right away...I would stick with your 24mm bar!

I'm in a 1.6, so it sounds like I don't have the option anyway. (Cue Dewhurst...) BTW, I also haven't raced in two years, so "slipping" isn't the half of the problem.

[DrDomm]

Really disappointing that a 2 year(season) old rule was unknown to you...your slipping clown Everyone in a 94-97 that I know switched back right away...I would stick with your 24mm bar!

Ron, are you saying that people in '94-'97's switched back to the 27mm bar? Or that they made the switch to the adjustable 24mm bar (right away)?

[Bench Racer]

I'm in a 1.6, so it sounds like I don't have the option anyway. (Cue Dewhurst...) BTW, I also haven't raced in two years, so "slipping" isn't the half of the problem.

Jim, I had been a bit concerned that you hadn't posted for a week or so. No more concern. & I did know the bar rule even tho I'm only a bench racer.

[Ron Alan]

Ron, are you saying that people in '94-'97's switched back to the 27mm bar? Or that they made the switch to the adjustable 24mm bar (right away)?

Yes...went from 27 to 24. Jim, my comment was for the OP

[Bench Racer]

Jim, speaking of a benched racer, where is the profile "Benched Racer"? Hope his med conditions haven't taken a turn.

[Jim Boemler]

Seems like a lot of us have been benched in the last few years, several with medical issues -- who are you referring to, David?

[zzyx79]

Yes...went from 27 to 24. Jim, my comment was for the OP

Thanks for the input. I can see a lot of people trying it, but are people faster with the smaller front bar? I would think that having a little extra roll stiffness (balanced out with the rear bar on full stiff?) to reduce camber loss would be helpful. I'm physically limited to running the bar on full soft only. The end links won't achieve enough angle to reach the full stiff setting.

You might see why you can't get more camber. Are you running the Fat Cat bumpstop kit? Are your control arms bent?

Keith -- Thanks for the input. Yes. I have the Fat Cat kit, and am running about as low as I would want to go according to feedback on this board about bump stop gaps. I can't tell if my arms are bent. They look to be OK, but it's hard to tell with the organic shape. Any way for me to check? I might try loosening up some joints in the front suspension to see if I have some tolerance stack up that's reducing my camber. So you're able to get more than 3* camber? That's nuts!

Thanks for the all the input, guys.

[Keith Novak]

I can't tell if my arms are bent. They look to be OK, but it's hard to tell with the organic shape. Any way for me to check? I might try loosening up some joints in the front suspension to see if I have some tolerance stack up that's reducing my camber.

With 2.7-2.8* it's really hard to check unless you have a jig like the Miatacage guys use. I had one bent and was limited to 2.5*. I asked a local expert who showed me what to look for and I couldn't see anything wrong or put a straight edge anywhere I could find a bend. I asked him to look and after about 5 seconds of eyeballing it, told me it was...and he was right.

Try loosening everything up though. I've had that work for a couple tenths.

[Ron Alan]

Thanks for the input. I can see a lot of people trying it, but are people faster with the smaller front bar? I would think that having a little extra roll stiffness (balanced out with the rear bar on full stiff?) to reduce camber loss would be helpful. I'm physically limited to running the bar on full soft only. The end links won't achieve enough angle to reach the full stiff setting.

With the stiffer bar it was tough to get the car loose...always pushed like crazy. The smaller bar helped a lot without having to make all kinds of other adjustments.

[Bench Racer]

Seems like a lot of us have been benched in the last few years, several with medical issues -- who are you referring to, David?

David Stevens from Vegas.

You also have a pm

[davew]

Simply increasing roll stiffness front and rear does not neccesarily make the car better. All my 94-97 cars are using the smaller 1.6 front bar. Everybody likes it.

If you are not able to get 3* camber at the proper ride height, you more than likely have something bent. You would be amazed at how often I find bent pieces in perfectly straight donor cars!!! Every component can bend, uppers, lowers, spindles, hubs, ball joints, bolts etc. We are running at absolute max tolerances for the adjustments. If something is off just a little it can make a big difference.

Dave