28 replies to this topic

[stillentwint17]

Hi everyone,

I'm completely new to this, and this is my first post, but i was going to go look at a SCCA/NASA Spec Miata tomorrow. I've been going to track days in my WRX but the days on that car are numbered and as its my DD, I was planning to buy a dedicated track car to start the process of getting my SCCA license. i love my WRX but everytime i go to track, i find a new problem. As I feel the cost to make my WRX track ready is about the same price as a Spec miata, i was planning to buy a Miata.

I'm wondering if someone can provide some advice on what i should look for in this spec car. My concern, is that i will run into the same problems with the Miata as I do with my current car.. Engine and transmission issues.

Is a Spec Miata with over 145k reliable...is that an ok number of miles? i would consider one weekend at the track equivalent to about 5k miles of wear so I'm a bit concerned.

Does anyone happen to have any advice on what to look for or ask in relation to the car..
I left a brief description below.

Cheers,

The car has Approximately 145,000 miles and supposedly runs strong.. It comes with a hardtop, roll cage, defroster, etc...its been logged with SCCA and NASA for 5 years..Factory Hardtop. Autopower roll cage, custom doors ards. Bilsteins, spec antiroll bar with endlinks..etc..

[Mike Collins]

Where in the country are you....

[Johnny D]

Let me guess...
NorCal and you saw it on CL or E-bay.
J~

[Mike Collins]

Send me the ad or build sheet or pics...

[stillentwint17]

Hi guys,

Yes, nor cal. Bayarea. I did see it on craigslist..lol.. I've been looking for months but i'm assuming by the response this is a bad idea...

[stillentwint17]

Silver '92 Miata NA, street legal and registered in CA (paid through 8/2013). Approximately 145,000 miles. Runs very strong and is track ready

SCCA Spec Miata. Car has the following:
Factory hardtop (also silver) with defroster ($1,000)
Autopower roll cage with custom door bars fabricated by Andrew Fernandez and a strengthening bar welded in across the main hoop. Has SCCA and NASA tech stamps from 5+years ago. Custom door bars don't require removal of the windows, and the windows still work. SCCA tech sticker on cage.
Spec Miata suspension with rebuilt Bilsteins, new coilovers, and spec antiroll bars with endlinks ($2,000)
2 sets of 14" stock wheels - one set with street rubber, other with worn BFG race tires (3 are usable, one is corded) - $300
Fuel sample port ($20)
Momo driver's seat ($500)
Sabelt 5-pt camlock harness ($200)
Kill switch
Racing Beat cone intake with K&N Air Filter ($200)
Nology spark plug wires ($100)
Carbotech XP10 brake pads ($100)
Mazda comp exhaust ($125)
Off-road pipe (can be bolted in place of catalytic converter for track) $60
Aluminum radiator ($300)
Stainless steel brake lines ($50)
Momo steering wheel and hub ($200)
Miata R chin spoiler ($100)
Tie Down toe hooks ($50)
Subframe Bracing ($100)
Alignment and weight balance done by Tim Barber from TFB Performance
1.8L Torsen LSD 4.1 gear ratio setup ($800)
Miata Turn Signal Induction Kit ($100)
SCCA logbook
NASA logbook


Car has been gutted for racing, but still has a stereo and speakers (they help the car make minimum weight). Paint is faded but the chassis is straight and there is no rust.

The LF fender is dimpled from previous contact in a race. It has run perfectly, and the only thing I've had to replace recently is the battery.

Asking $5900 OBO for complete car with all items above - No trades
May part out if many parts needed

For $1000, I'll include:
1 set of 15x7 Team Dynamics Pro Race 1 wheels, anthracite, 30mm offset, mounted with 205/50/15 Toyo Proxes RA-1 race tires (about 50% worn).

[Johnny D]

If it's only a track car and you had the $.
How about this one.
http://sfbay.craigsl...3337232222.html
J~

[stillentwint17]

Thats really nice. Wow. A bit out of my price range. I was hoping for 6-7k...I should make the guy an offer for 8k and see what he says..Thanks for the heads up J.

Anything in particular to check when test driving a miata? Anything issue they are prone to?

[Johnny D]

Racing/track days are hard on a cars.
Even with a newer one your going to have worn pcs after a while.
More maintainance that a street car for sure.
But for the engine, etc, you can bang on them and they do really well.
I've seen 230K but all depends on whats been done to it.
We don't see SM's for less than 7K really.
It needs work to become SM again, diferent diff etc.
J~

[Keith Novak]

It's not a spec miata. The diff has the wrong ratio. The air induction turn signal isn't legal. The subframe bracing probably isn't. The intake is cheesy. The cage is cheesy. The belts may be expired. The 14" wheels aren't legal. $1k for the other wheels and tires is over priced. I'd pass even as one to track and consider turning into a SM later. I've seen much better real SM cars for slightly more when people have to sell for divorce, college or something.

[Tom Sager]

Thats really nice. Wow. A bit out of my price range. I was hoping for 6-7k...I should make the guy an offer for 8k and see what he says..Thanks for the heads up J.

Anything in particular to check when test driving a miata? Anything issue they are prone to?

Like many things in life you get what you pay for. For what it's worth I'd look only at cars with a good sound chassis and good quality cage. There should be a bunch of cars this time of year to look at and if you can stretch to $10K or so and look a bit outside your area you might save money in the long run. There should be a bunch of guys nearby that would help coach you through this process.

[Johnny D]

Like many things in life you get what you pay for. For what it's worth I'd look only at cars with a good sound chassis and good quality cage. There should be a bunch of cars this time of year to look at and if you can stretch to $10K or so and look a bit outside your area you might save money in the long run. There should be a bunch of guys nearby that would help coach you through this process.

The one I posted..
It was built by Marc Hoover, Hoover Speed. Wasn't he at the Runoffs?? Anyway.
Ya it's not a SM, may not fit any class that great but isn't bad for a track car as long as it hold together.
Ya he should save up and get a good SM if he really wants to get into SM.

Mike, hope you didn't hurt yourself if you fell out of your chair when you saw the $5800 ad.
J~

[stillentwint17]

I really appreciate all the help guys.

I learned more in 10 minutes than i would of over hours of googling. I really wanted to get this car tomorrow but i think i will hold off. At a minimum, i was looking for a shop that could look at it prior to purchasing, but i think i will look into something in the higher range. My biggest concern is purchasing a car that puts me in the same situation as my current car....minus the cash.
As I only see 1 or 2 cars pop up on craigslist a month, I end up comparing the cars with other craigslist cars....Probably not the wisest thing.
I will contact your post Johnny just to see what he says.

Tom, I agree. I think i will have to open my wallet a bit. I really cant afford to be fixing two cars at once.

My goal is to eventually get into Spec racing but did you, Tom and Keith use a spec car for your licensing? As it will take me probably 2 years to get through my license I'm a bit unsure if it is wise to purchase a miata and turn it into a spec car or purchase a spec car right off the bat. Decisions decisions. All i want to do is race, so many decisions.

[Keith Novak]

I got my license from Skip Barber in an open wheel car but started racing a SM. I built my car. Auto-x for a bit then the roll bar for HPDE type events and then went wheel to wheel. It has advantages going that route in that you learn a lot about the car and what you like in racing, but big disadvantages too because you wind up buying a lot of stuff for the car that you can't use when you take it to the next stage and it takes quite a while before you're going wheel to wheel. You also find out quickly that the SM field is really freakin fast. You can be a track day hero and get humbled in a race field very very quickly. Lots and lots of threads have been written on build or buy a car.

While I'm very fond of my current car being one I built myself and my first race car, I'm sure it won't be my last and my next I'll do very differently. I'll either buy an already good car to develop more, or a very solid donor and build it all at once so by the time one major area has been refreshed there's not another ready to be replaced. Either way I will inevitably spend more money than I planned.

If you really want to get your license right away with a small budget and race against people instead of having expensive lapping days, go to the races first and see what's in what class. I routinely see $5-7 cars that are pretty decent...Miatas, CRX, Neons, RX-7s that you can get your license in, have a lot of fun racing people instead of all strung out around the course and see what you want to do next. People build some nice ones and then decide they want to move on to the next thing and there's not a huge market so the prices are good. You could also ask around about rentals. Some people rent cars pretty reasonably including Spec Miatas. We have a really fast Miata that was retired from SM, then retired from chump car being deemed to fast, and now we rent it out to people for licensing or just got the bug and want to race. There are ways to do it without diving in the deep end all at once.

[Ron Alan]

I

My goal is to eventually get into Spec racing but did you, Tom and Keith use a spec car for your licensing? As it will take me probably 2 years to get through my license I'm a bit unsure if it is wise to purchase a miata and turn it into a spec car or purchase a spec car right off the bat. Decisions decisions. All i want to do is race, so many decisions.

If you want to race SM do not waste your time with anything that isn't already SM legal or that you can't easily build into an SM. The car Johnny linked to is nice...and would be a cool track car...but almost has to be stripped of all the "nice" stuff. Only a few things you could reuse. But the upside is all the aftermarket stuff(new donor motor would have to be found) will get you money back. Do the math and pencil it out. You can find a decent NA donor for $1000-$2000 or NB from $2500-$3500. Again a nicely modded car can end up being a cheap donor after you get rid of stuff. Our car was FREE after we sold all the stuff we couldn't use...but I did fall into a killer deal! So don't just look at the car price...look at what the price will be after you sell the stuff you don't want. There are several cars in the area for under 10k(SM's)
Also, if your going to do the SCCA driving school(Feb/march each year), you need a current logged book race car. Not sure how NASA ends up giving a license but I know you can start in their HPDE...but at some point you also have to have a current logged book car.

[Tom Sager]

If you want to race SM do not waste your time with anything that isn't already SM legal or that you can't easily build into an SM. The car Johnny linked to is nice...and would be a cool track car...but almost has to be stripped of all the "nice" stuff. Only a few things you could reuse. But the upside is all the aftermarket stuff(new donor motor would have to be found) will get you money back. Do the math and pencil it out. You can find a decent NA donor for $1000-$2000 or NB from $2500-$3500. Again a nicely modded car can end up being a cheap donor after you get rid of stuff. Our car was FREE after we sold all the stuff we couldn't use...but I did fall into a killer deal! So don't just look at the car price...look at what the price will be after you sell the stuff you don't want. There are several cars in the area for under 10k(SM's)
Also, if your going to do the SCCA driving school(Feb/march each year), you need a current logged book race car. Not sure how NASA ends up giving a license but I know you can start in their HPDE...but at some point you also have to have a current logged book car.

I think Ron is giving you some good advice here. If you get a car you can ultimately race you'll be able to learn the car and work on your driving all through the licensing portion and when you do get to that first race, you'll be more ready to compete. This will probably be the lower overall cost path unless you find a track day car you can steal and easily resell when the time comes.

[davew]

Same thing I tell everybody who asks a similar question READ READ READ.

Read the rule book
read this website, use the search feature
read my book, especially the first few chapters.

This time of year cars are cheap. I have a couple I will be clearing out next month when everything is done. Buy a reputable car from a reputable person/company. Cheap cars usually cost more money in the long run than a good car.

Notice I never said to read Craigslist.

Dave

[RazerX]

Not disaggreeing with any posts here. I would say it does depend on how mechanically minded and willing you are. Not everyone is capable, has the right tools or the time to 'build' a spec miata. However the path to upgrading if you start with a good car, can be very rewarding, as you learn how to put something on the car, and how that affects the handling and gives you setup experience. That may cost a little more in the long run but the experience may be worth it. But if you don't want to spend time or $$ then the comments about buying a sorted SM out of the gate does have a lot of value. When I buy another SM i will probably go that route. However, if the car you buy doesn't have a log book, you need to take to a NASA/SCCA inspection shop / individual and get it teched before you pay for it. A car with a substandard cage, it just money throwing away. Just for information the wrong diff can cost you $1k, so that is a key piece of hardware you need to validate.

[stillentwint17]

Same thing I tell everybody who asks a similar question READ READ READ.

Read the rule book
read this website, use the search feature
read my book, especially the first few chapters.

This time of year cars are cheap. I have a couple I will be clearing out next month when everything is done. Buy a reputable car from a reputable person/company. Cheap cars usually cost more money in the long run than a good car.

Notice I never said to read Craigslist.

Dave

Hi David,

I would love to read a book on this. What is your book? I actually went to tons of book stores trying to find some guidance on how to start this path.

[stillentwint17]

I got my license from Skip Barber in an open wheel car but started racing a SM. I built my car. Auto-x for a bit then the roll bar for HPDE type events and then went wheel to wheel. It has advantages going that route in that you learn a lot about the car and what you like in racing, but big disadvantages too because you wind up buying a lot of stuff for the car that you can't use when you take it to the next stage and it takes quite a while before you're going wheel to wheel. You also find out quickly that the SM field is really freakin fast. You can be a track day hero and get humbled in a race field very very quickly. Lots and lots of threads have been written on build or buy a car.

While I'm very fond of my current car being one I built myself and my first race car, I'm sure it won't be my last and my next I'll do very differently. I'll either buy an already good car to develop more, or a very solid donor and build it all at once so by the time one major area has been refreshed there's not another ready to be replaced. Either way I will inevitably spend more money than I planned.

If you really want to get your license right away with a small budget and race against people instead of having expensive lapping days, go to the races first and see what's in what class. I routinely see $5-7 cars that are pretty decent...Miatas, CRX, Neons, RX-7s that you can get your license in, have a lot of fun racing people instead of all strung out around the course and see what you want to do next. People build some nice ones and then decide they want to move on to the next thing and there's not a huge market so the prices are good. You could also ask around about rentals. Some people rent cars pretty reasonably including Spec Miatas. We have a really fast Miata that was retired from SM, then retired from chump car being deemed to fast, and now we rent it out to people for licensing or just got the bug and want to race. There are ways to do it without diving in the deep end all at once.

Hi Keith,

I was thinking of taking the same path. I have been contemplating going to Skip Barbers 3 days class before i even bought a car... If you were to do it again, would you spend the 4K for Skip Barber or should i use that money for a car. I currently have a limit of around 10k to get me started. I could use 4k for the training and 6k for a car or 10k for a car and complete skip barber next year...

FYI, If i was to go the 6K route for a car, i would just buy a stock miata and go that route...

What would you do?

Thanks again,
Colin