Jump to content

Photo

Hoosier vs. Toyo: Provide your feedback after a year

- - - - - tires hoosier toyo

  • Please log in to reply
107 replies to this topic

Poll: Driver feedback on Hoosier vs. Toyo switch (64 member(s) have cast votes)

How many sessions did you get from the SM6 compared to the RA1?

  1. More sessions (4 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  2. Same sessions (19 votes [29.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.69%

  3. Fewer sessions (41 votes [64.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.06%

If the tire decision for 2013 were up to you, would you stay with the SM6 or go back to the RA1?

  1. Stay with the Hoosier SM6 (31 votes [48.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.44%

  2. Go back to the Toyo RA1 (33 votes [51.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.56%

Where do you finish in the field?

  1. Front third (39 votes [60.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.94%

  2. Mid-pack (22 votes [34.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.38%

  3. Back third (3 votes [4.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.69%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 6,121 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88
Just for the record guys, Brian is the SFR SCCA SM/BOD.
J~
2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#22
Tom Sager

Tom Sager

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts
  • Location:Chicago Suburbs
  • Region:Central
  • Car Year:1996
  • Car Number:94

I still vote open tire for SM!!!! I know it is a Spec Class, but open tire curbs the spending and brings in more "tire war" sponsors. The guys who spend money now on stickers every session will keep on spending...it won't change the outcome but it sure will keep the overall cost of tires down!


Yeah but it will also result in contracted drivers getting free tires and possibly special tires for a select few. Have been down this road before and it's great if you're in the inner circle. Not so good for the masses. It really sucks when some guys are running stickers every session and not paying for them. I suppose we could write rules prohibiting this but those would be very hard to enforce. Years ago I had some "special" rain tires given to me by one manufacturer and there were only a few sets given out and they were better on a wet track.
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#23
fishguyaz

fishguyaz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Region:AZ
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:92
moose, thanks for the heads up on not all regions are open tires at region events for SM.
i will find out before traveling.

brian,
saying no input from those who have not used the hoosiers may be a bit limiting in your feedback.
I havent driven on the hoosiers, and if the tires were paid for by someone other than myself the hoosier would be my tire of choice.
my issue is I own and race 2 cars. a FF, and the SM.
formula cars use soft slicks, and its a tire war of who has the money to have the newest tires for the race. this equals alot of $ to (even have the opportunity to)race with the guys at the front.
I run my FF with a group that uses a hard compound slick which last a very long time. I could never justify the cost of tire for a weekend. this was the draw that brought me back to SM, i had left to go race open wheel. the ra-1 was a bargain considering it had a long useful life. pro engines aside and all the rest that changed, the tires(RA-1) were the thing that kept the class cost reasonable.

reading this thread and some of the above comments confirm my thoughts on the cost of tires alone just to have the opportunity to run up front. its just hard to justfy, so i figured i just run my toyos and do the regionals rather than nationals.
the majors will change all of that next year, so thats where my question about regions with open tires came up since we will all be "regional drivers" next year.

Isnt choosing to not even purchase them for the reasons above an answer to your question.
I hate the idea of needing to cycle a set of tires at an event before i can really even flog on them, not to mention the useful life of them.
my vote which is not in the poll is I dont even want to buy one set of a tire with these characteristics.

I appologize and am not trying to stir up the pot, just offer another view. I currently have 7 years of national eligibility so i do feel that i at least should get an opionion on a website.............dont you think?
thanks, Josh
Josh Pitt
1999 SM #92 SoPac division

#24
mdavis

mdavis

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts
  • Region:Texas
I wonder what percentage of those who said "fewer sessions" actually heat cycled the tires as Hoosier suggests? Hoosier says that they won't provide any more grip by heat-cycling just last longer.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#25
Justin Baltrucki

Justin Baltrucki

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Location:Manchester CT
  • Region:NER
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:54
Overall happy with the switch to hoosiers vs the toyos, They are super fast for 3-4cycles and then level off till ~12 heat cycles and they start to get pretty scary. They dont seem to wear out, but the wear is pretty even before they go off. I think the toyo's went off about the same, but the min grip level never got as bad as the hoosiers seem to get. Eventually the hoosiers make the car evil if you go 20+ cycles.

I am against open tire as the hoosiers will go from ~175 each to 234 each in this size. Anyone thinking open tire will save money needs to look at the killer deal we are getting on hoosiers from this contract. Most other race classes are open tire, and I dont see any deals out there other than odd brand tires no one really wants just before winter time. If you have an example of open tire = $50 a tire savings i would love to see it. Its also nice to have our local hoosier guy at the track. I aways had to pay shipping on toyo's. Hoosiers are the fastest, and right now without hit or miss shaving the cheapest to buy IMO.

I also like these tires better for autocross as I like to occasionally mix it up for fun. The toyo's were a real handicap for autocross.
  • screaming monkey likes this

#26
Brian Ghidinelli

Brian Ghidinelli

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • Location:San Rafael, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:12

saying no input from those who have not used the hoosiers may be a bit limiting in your feedback.


Josh - SFR still runs Toyos and we're figuring out what to do for next year. Your feedback is great and we have heard similar; what we're looking for is specifically insight into the year of experience drivers have now with the Hoosier across the spectrum. The reasons you cite are all reasons why we didn't change last year and why we might not change next year.

I hate the idea of needing to cycle a set of tires at an event before i can really even flog on them, not to mention the useful life of them.
my vote which is not in the poll is I dont even want to buy one set of a tire with these characteristics.


The RA1s need to be worn in before they were really ready to use (e.g., test/practice on them first) unless you're shaving to 1/32" like at the Runoffs. I'd rather have a consistent tire out of the box than be juggling 4 sets of tires waiting to get them "in the zone" but not if it means tire budgets go up 25%. That's what I'm personally after with the poll.
Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#27
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35
Maybe this pole would be better delayed until we see what the RA-1 replacement turns out to be. when you compare the RA-1 to the Hoosier its not a fair fight, the RA-1 is not a true racing tire. The Hoosier out performs it. one of the down sides of the Hoosier compared to the RA-1 is its weight, but it has way more stick and you do not need to be a set up wizard to make them perform.

Right now, i would prefer the Hoosier, it takes less work to get the car in the zone. If the RR turns out, to be better then I would change my mind. I do wish that we could get the groups to one tire.

We spend a lot of time on this board talking about what is good for the class, having two different tires and the costs associated with two sets of drys and wets, is not good for the class, it keeps people from participating.

Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#28
HoneyBadger - BrianW

HoneyBadger - BrianW

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

SM6 is no faster than RA1.


I have to disagree with this. At the tracks I have run the SM6 is definitely faster than the RA1. I would expand their usable racing life out to around 4 maybe 5 heat cycles, with qualifying on stickers or 1 heat cycles.
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#29
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2
Open tire is great for me personally as I would never buy another tire.. but bad for the class IMO.. I agree with what Tom said. I will also state if you are a sponsored driver for tire company X, and you need tire Y to win.. well, your screwed. If only sponsored drivers get the best and latest stuff of company X and other drivers can't even buy it.. well that stinks too.

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#30
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

Open tire is great for me personally as I would never buy another tire.. but bad for the class IMO.. I agree with what Tom said. I will also state if you are a sponsored driver for tire company X, and you need tire Y to win.. well, your screwed. If only sponsored drivers get the best and latest stuff of company X and other drivers can't even buy it.. well that stinks too.


I guess it's not enforceable to mandate that all tires must be available for purchase, they could make a different compound in the same mold.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#31
screaming monkey

screaming monkey

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • Location:Waunakee
  • Region:WI
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:65
I prefer the sm6 having only used them for one weekend, but am a little disappointed at the short life.(after 6 sessions, cords are visible through rubber on one tire). I didn't heat cycle them prior to qualifying, so that is my fault and will look to doing so in the future. What I do like is the confidence and excellent feedback they provide. While the RA1's slip before they grip, creating a brief moment of uncertainty, the sm6 does what it's supposed to on turn in and if it doesn't, you know immediately what your up against. From the beginning it was said that these will help mid pack drivers go faster and imo, that's exactly what they do. Maybe the next move is to work with Hoosier to alter the compound to provide longer life as this will make them a better long term tire for us. I'm sure the folks at Hoosier would like to have this contract again and would be willing to work with us.. ;)

Richard Scott Mooney
"Warm up your tires, brakes and brains"


#32
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,659 posts
FWIW I purchased "pre-heat-cycled" Hoosiers this season and got 12-16 heat cycles out of them before a big fall-off in performance (adjusted for mid-pack talent)

if you are a sponsored driver for tire company X


Sponsored drivers are bad for this class too, IMO.
2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#33
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22

I prefer the sm6 having only used them for one weekend, but am a little disappointed at the short life.(after 6 sessions, cords are visible through rubber on one tire). I didn't heat cycle them prior to qualifying, so that is my fault and will look to doing so in the future. What I do like is the confidence and excellent feedback they provide. While the RA1's slip before they grip, creating a brief moment of uncertainty, the sm6 does what it's supposed to on turn in and if it doesn't, you know immediately what your up against. From the beginning it was said that these will help mid pack drivers go faster and imo, that's exactly what they do. Maybe the next move is to work with Hoosier to alter the compound to provide longer life as this will make them a better long term tire for us. I'm sure the folks at Hoosier would like to have this contract again and would be willing to work with us.. ;)


Check you set up, you should not be cording a Hoosier at 6 sessions. The only time I have hurt the Hoosier is when I had a front right lower control arm bent and could only get -1.8 camber at Hallett. These tires grip so well even when the set up is off they will tear themselves apart.

My experience in a 99

Stickers=uber grip for 4 laps tops
1-5 raceable
6-8 pushing the limits if you flipped them on the rim based on wear pattern, could cycle out anywhere in that time period and anywhere on the track, real eyeopener if you are 10/10s in a high speed carousel

9-15 autocrosser tire

My experience in a 1.6
Stickers= almost too grippy for the little engine that could, also scares the heck out me about tearing up the diff
1-10 raceable if you flip them on the rim based on wear pattern
11-? autocrosser tire
Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#34
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

My experience in a 1.6
Stickers= almost too grippy for the little engine that could, also scares the heck out me about tearing up the diff


That's ^ almost to funny.

Yup, the bench racer has a 1.6, but no alternate car.
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#35
Alex Bolanos

Alex Bolanos

    The Cuban Missile

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 355 posts
  • Location:Miami FL
  • Region:FL
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:57

FWIW I purchased "pre-heat-cycled" Hoosiers this season and got 12-16 heat cycles out of them before a big fall-off in performance (adjusted for mid-pack talent)


Sounds like you need a datalogger, your butt-lap timer is way off if you really think you got over 10 useful cycles on a set of hoo hoos....
  • chris haldeman likes this

Alex Bolanos - #57 
Sponsored by Autotechnik, Momo USA, Apex Alignment, and Amazon.com

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Majors Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner

#36
Caveman-kwebb99

Caveman-kwebb99

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • Location:World Wide
  • Region:Great lakes
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:99

Sounds like you need a datalogger, your butt-lap timer is way off if you really think you got over 10 useful cycles on a set of hoo hoos....


Arent you the same mexican kid I saw over behind the hoosier truck grabbing all those garbage tires and having them put on the car before hitting the track at the Mid Ohio National? And werent those winning tires?
  • trimless likes this

K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)

Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup

2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio

2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!

2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America

2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest

My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
 

 

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Majors Winner - Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#37
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

FWIW I purchased "pre-heat-cycled" Hoosiers this season and got 12-16 heat cycles out of them before a big fall-off in performance (adjusted for mid-pack talent)



Sponsored drivers are bad for this class too, IMO.


When you have open tires, tire companies will sponsor faster drivers.. there are no sponsored drivers with Spec tires

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#38
Kyle Keenan

Kyle Keenan

    Pass right

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 202 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, Wa
  • Region:Oregon Region
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:44
I still don't like the SM6, and it's solely my personal view. The driver in me doesnt quite like how the hoosier covers mistakes, I just almost think it's too much tire for the class.

That said, I've got a set of SM6's ready for me to try on a B-Spec, where I hope they hold up a bit better then the RA-1's.
  • Rob Burgoon likes this

#44 Team KBR/KKRProducts.com Spec Miata
#44 Team KBR/Dick Hannah Kia Rio B-Spec/ World Challenge TCB
#16 & #36 Blairco Spec Miata's, ICSCC

 

2014 SCCA B-Spec National Champion

 

Dick Hannah Dealerships | Kia Racing | Team-KBR.com | KKRProducts.com | DBB | Fast Specialties | Blairco Heating | SBOX Engineering | Sikk Shades by Eddie Bauer, JR | Hawk Performance

 

Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#39
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,659 posts

Sounds like you need a datalogger, your butt-lap timer is way off if you really think you got over 10 useful cycles on a set of hoo hoos


Moot point - can't afford datalogger, can't afford to buy new tires every 10 heat cycles. Please advise.
2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,659 posts

The driver in me doesnt quite like how the hoosier covers mistakes, I just almost think it's too much tire for the class.


Yep, Vettel says the same thing about the super-softs. :spin:
2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: tires, hoosier, toyo

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users