31 replies to this topic

[PKeane]

I would like to request the help of the SM community. We have created a new Regional class called STL. The STL class rules are loosely based on the ITA rules, but remove some of the tech inspector problems in IT. The ST committee would like to encourage any SM competitors that are double dipping on regional weekends to run STL as their second class.

I believe that STL will be a good fit for all Miata’s and MX5’s that want to prepare their cars beyond SM and SM5. As the chairman of the ST committee, I can assure you that we will do everything possible to make Miata’s and MX5 competitive in STL.

The STO and STU classes have proven to be very popular in National racing. I believe STL will be as popular once it reaches National status. Thank you, PK.

[Jim Daniels - FIG]

I almost forgot about this class!!

Yet another place to race a MX5.

Hoover, chime in??

[Edens]

I know someone who is building a STL Miata. Looks like a fun car.

[William Bonsell]

So I guess I am a bit confused about the STL vs ITA issue with regards to a Spec Miata. A true 1.6 SM has not been very competitive in a huge ITA field and there were some tech issues I believe. That being said, it appears from what I have been reading, that the STL class allows significant upgrades over the standard SM built. Why then this new class? I was hoping the new STL class would essentially allow a full on SM to be more competitive in a 2nd class. Perhaps I am reading this all wrong. I would certainly not like to put my 1.6 into STL and be further off the pace than I can be in a huge ITA class.

What's everyone's take on this.....Thanks.

Bill

[Bruce Wilson]

Bill,

There was a lot of conversation over the winter about the SM potential rule changes and if that would be legal in ITA. The discussion made a lot of folks realize/understand/recognize that the ITA rules some regions had in supps weren't defensible. That is why, at least the Oregon region, we decided to use STL as the legal double dip class for SM. You are correct that a SM trim car will be at a worse advantage in STL, but I wouldn't worry too much about that until folks start building competitive cars in the class. Either way, a true ITA or STL Miata would stomp a SM so it was a crap shoot either way, BUT at least now the supps are in line with the rules.

-bw

[William Bonsell]

Thanks Bruce....

I have also posted over on ICSCC to see it they intend to add the STL class to their Group 5 and move all the SM's that run ITA into STL. I don't think SCCA NWR is up to speed on this either. Enjoy your first race weekend. Sunday looks very wet....Hope to see you at Rose Cup.

Bill

[Bruce Wilson]

Bill,

We did include NW Region in our discussion on this change. We like to at least be the same as NWR and SFR if at all possible.

-bw

[Johnny D]

I posted this yesterday in our (SFR) Sup. Reg.

We also have STL in group 5.
STL - a region only class added by SCCA National for Spec Miatas will be included in SFR Group 5. STL creates a Super Touring class for cars with engines 2.0L and below (with STL-specific restrictions; see GCR 9.1.4.3). Miatas in STL must be fully SMT compliant (including tires).

I spoke with Tam and Sherry.
Currently STL is a alternate to ITA/S.
Run which ever.
J~

Here's the ITA rules...
SMT/SSM in ITA: 1990-1997 SMT or SSM class-compliant cars may enter ITA. SMT or SSM cars entering as ITA cars must comply with all SMT/SSM Class rules except for tires, which must comply with GCR Section 9.3.45 (Tires). All other ITA entries must comply fully with ITA class rules per GCR Section 9.1.3.
1999-2005 SMT class-compliant cars may enter ITS. SMT cars entering as ITS cars must comply with all SMT class rules except for tires, which must comply with GCR Section 9.3.45 (Tires); and restrictor plates, which must comply with GCR Section 9.1.3. All other ITS entries must comply fully with ITS class rules per GCR Section 9.1.3.

I was told that the RP comment for ITS would be motioned to be removed.

As I see it.
ITA/S you can run different tires that ITA/S permits. (a real ITA/S car will kick you butt)
STL is SM compliant.

J~

[William Bonsell]

Bill,

There was a lot of conversation over the winter about the SM potential rule changes and if that would be legal in ITA. The discussion made a lot of folks realize/understand/recognize that the ITA rules some regions had in supps weren't defensible. That is why, at least the Oregon region, we decided to use STL as the legal double dip class for SM. You are correct that a SM trim car will be at a worse advantage in STL, but I wouldn't worry too much about that until folks start building competitive cars in the class. Either way, a true ITA or STL Miata would stomp a SM so it was a crap shoot either way, BUT at least now the supps are in line with the rules.

-bw

Bruce....

So is it your understanding that a fully compliant SM is no longer legal in ITA and must run in STL as the 2nd class, or is this just something specific to SFR, Oregon and NWR? I have looked at the 2011 GCR's and things seem a bit confusing. And the intent of national establishing this STL regional class, wasn't for the purpose of allowing those drivers to enter STU at Nationals as has been suggested over on another forum. Thanks.

Bill

[Jim Creighton]

Peter, perhaps it might be helpful to be specific about some of the ITA rule violations if a driver double dips his SM. The other question I have is about the new SM 5 class for MX 5 cars. At what point should a MX 5 run SM 5 vs running STL? Is this the SM cars running ITS?

It's going to take a lot of cross over to bring the entry level up high enough to have these classes become National classes so I think a little education might be helpful. I, for one, tried to read the new STL rules and at about the 5th page I found myself thinking about a beach in Hawaii!

[Mike Collins]

I am with Jim. I read the book and I still need the readers digest version.

[PKeane]

Sorry guys it took me so long to see this thread. First of all the STL rules set was created because IT was never going to reach National status. The IT rule set is very popular, but one of the biggest draw backs was the ability to assure tech compliance. One of the main goals was to make STL easier to tech than an IT car (maximum valve lift and compression). A second goal was to try to equal the HP potential of all the manufactures engines. In most basic terms, we found that Honda’s made more HP than other manufactures, because they had more valve lift.

There are several IT rules that make SM cars noncompliant. The easy ones that come to mind are changing the front spindles or converting your 90-93 to a torsen rear. I know there are more, but that is what popped in my head.

Jim, we recently adopted the SM5 rule right into STL. You can now run your SM5 in STL and be compliant. I know my friend Mr. Collins won’t like this, but I think STL has a lot better chance of making National status then SM5. All of the current SM cars are STL legal.

The committee is currently working on simplifying how the rules read. Thanks for the discussion, PK

[Mike Collins]

Jim, we recently adopted the SM5 rule right into STL. You can now run your SM5 in STL and be compliant. I know my friend Mr. Collins won’t like this, but I think STL has a lot better chance of making National status then SM5.

I love it. So I race an SM5 in STL at a National and in SM5 at a regional and when the SM5 numbers get high enough it can have its own national class????

[Steve S.]

And one more clarification: a '99 SM does or does not have to run the RP in STL?

thks

[PKeane]

The 99 does not have to run the plate in STL.

That is correct Mr Collins. PK

[Keith Novak]

Check your regional supps on that. I believe ours here say we must run in full SM trim if we're going to double dip SM and STL.

[Steve S.]

10-4, thanks.

[Mike Colangelo]

The 99 does not have to run the plate in STL.

Pete, are you sure about that?

According to Rule 9.1.4.b in the 2011 GCR:

"Spec Miata cars completely conforming to Spec Miata class specifications are eligible for STL."

Has something changed?

[Tyler Raatz]

Pete, are you sure about that?

According to Rule 9.1.4.b in the 2011 GCR:

"Spec Miata cars completely conforming to Spec Miata class specifications are eligible for STL."

Has something changed?

Pull the plate, you now have a legal ITS car. Enter STL as an ITS car, you wont need to meet STL specific saftey equipment rules on spec miata R/P rules.

[Johnny D]

Pete, are you sure about that?

According to Rule 9.1.4.b in the 2011 GCR:

"Spec Miata cars completely conforming to Spec Miata class specifications are eligible for STL."

Has something changed?

I think you both are right, IMO.
99 (not SM) no plate.
99SM required.
J~