58 replies to this topic

[Bruce Wilson]

Wow, SCCA is taking a vote. How cool is that

One of the things that was a little confusing however, was the question on Construction (shaved). Was that meant to be asking if I prefer a molded tire?

-Bruce

[Jim Drago]

I think that meant, do you like the "shaved" tire

[Qik Nip]

I think that meant, do you like the "shaved" tire

Jim:
I was a little dissapointed in that the survey didn't ask us to give an opinion as to our preference in the tire maker to be selected. I'm guessing a certain Indiana company would have gotten strong support.
Rick

[Bruce Wilson]

I was surprised the survey didn't ask about the preference of having the same wet and dry tire. That has always been a point of contention in the past. Asking if I like shaved is a bit backwards, becuase you can shave a molded tire. I don't prefer to shave my tires, but it is necessary to be competitive, i.e. least rotational mass.

-bw

[Rob Burgoon]

Also, I didn't like combining "fun tire" and "fast tire". Two totally different things.

[Tom Sager]

Also, I didn't like combining "fun tire" and "fast tire". Two totally different things.

Here's a vote for sticking with the Toyo. It might be hard to find another tire that will provide as long a useful life and I think that's really important for this class. There are certainly better perorming tires out there, but I don't know if other companies make tires that will stay consistent for as many cycles. Anyone know of other good choices with similar characteristics?

[EPrill]

An update just arrived in the email clarifying the construction items.

[Cy Peake]

I like the longevity of the Toyo. I also like how a wet tire transforms into a dry tire with enough use. I don't like the performance difference between a 4/32 and 1/32 shave. It means the guys with the dough to replace tires every weekend are faster. I voted for a moulded tire hoping that it will eliminate the performance advantage and cost disadvantage of a deep shave. Or is shaving a moulded tire like the Hoosier a common practice?

[James York]

I like the longevity of the Toyo. I also like how a wet tire transforms into a dry tire with enough use. I don't like the performance difference between a 4/32 and 1/32 shave. It means the guys with the dough to replace tires every weekend are faster. I voted for a moulded tire hoping that it will eliminate the performance advantage and cost disadvantage of a deep shave. Or is shaving a moulded tire like the BFG a common practice?

In general, you'll never be able to stop the effect of "the guys with dough". If its not super thin tires, then it will just be fresh rubber every race. Just a fact of racing. Just do the best you can with what you are able to spend.

[pat slattery]

If we were to go with a molded tire, lets say like a Hoosier, would there still be an advantage to having the tire shaved, versus running it uncut?

Pat

[KentCarter]

Jim:
I was a little dissapointed in that the survey didn't ask us to give an opinion as to our preference in the tire maker to be selected. I'm guessing a certain Indiana company would have gotten strong support.
Rick

Who makes the tire isn't important. Only what it does at what price/value.

[dstevens]

The manufacturer and the support offered is very important. Not that Toyo is bad, they seem to do a good job but you need a company that support the class and can offer consistent quality and availability. Toyo seems to do that well and offer a contengency. Hoosier would do well also. Last seasons "Continental" tire used in Grand Am was build by Hoosier and badged. (and they are on sale a blow out prices at Hoosier right now)

I've always been for more or less open tires (to a point) but much of the racing I've done have been on controlled/spec tire rules. James is right, you'll never stop the guy with the cash. He'll find something to spend it on. One way some of the circle track series control the tires in not only model but in quantity as well. There are some downsides to that as well. The tires are purchased from the track or specified vendor at the track and it takes some of the others out of the picture. The tires are branded for your car only so the new and/or guys with little dough can't use take offs from other teams.

I'd perfer to use a DOT racing radial that doesn't need to be shaved. The quality of the shave is a big variable in and of itself.

[mdavis]

I wonder if those that like the "longevity" of the current Toyo have really ever used the Hoosier? My experience has been that the Hoosiers actually last longer. And when I say "last" I mean retain performance. Yeah, yeah everyone has their story about how they ran their best times on corded, 20 cycle Toyos. But the realtiy is that the guys in the front don't use 20, much less 10 cycle tires so if we have a tire that is going to give a high level of performance over a longer period of time then it's going to save everyone some money and make the class more competitive. Our friend Mac Spikes used to love to make this argument.

[juliancates]

In GTS we had open tire rules, and what we found was that if you wanted to be competitive in class on any given weekend, then you had better bring a fresh set of Hoosiers. Even if not everybody was on stickers, somebody was going to be, and you were going to be giving up time to them if you weren't also on stickers. The R6's dropped off dramatically after about 8-10 heat cycles, and were the fastest on their first cycle.

I got tired of spending all my racing budget on tires, so I came over to SM where I can spend it on fenders. The spec tire wasn't the entire reason for coming over, but it was factored in for sure.

[Gatoratty]

Got the new survey this morning. One of the points that the original survey missed was the fact that with a shaved tire companies like Appalachian Tire can't keep an inventory of tires ready to race. They have to shave them based on individual orders. The manager told me they have guys order everything from 1/32 to 6/32. That means unless you order your tire in advance they won't have any for you at the track. If we used a molded tire they could just load up the truck and bring them to the track. I also find it funny that SCCA thinks Toyo provides trackside support. Appalachian's guys all wear purple shirts for a reason. They are a Hoosier dealer. The only tire engineers that I have seen at a race in our region were the Hoosier factory engineers at Daytona for our enduro and regionals.

[Kyle Burkhardt]

Julian:

I saw the writing on the wall when guys started bringing a sticker set of A6's to qualify on and a sticker set of R6s to race on. That's $2k in tires every weekend. Add in the wets and you've got $3k in tires in the trailer.

My experience with Hoosiers was the same. First two cycles were the ultimate grip. After one weekend they were 1 sec slower than a sticker set. After 2 weekends, 2-3 secs slower. Plenty of rubber, but junk after two weekends.

[mdavis]

Kyle- were you using the Hoosier spec miata tire which had been properly heat cycled according to their recs? My experience with both the R6 and the SM tire was that they lasted considerably longer if heat cycled as suggested by Hoosier.

[Bruce Wilson]

A molded tire will not stop folks from shaving. Rubber weighs a lot and rotational mass (x4 tires) is a speed killer!

-bw

[Kyle Burkhardt]

No, my experience was on properly cared-for R6's on an E36 M3. I used to run Toyos on that same car and had the same experience I have had with them on the Miata, so I assume the Hoohoo experience translates as well.

I raced GTS with Julian and lots of other guys on the R6 and everyone would tell you the same thing.

[Tom Sager]

Julian:

I saw the writing on the wall when guys started bringing a sticker set of A6's to qualify on and a sticker set of R6s to race on. That's $2k in tires every weekend. Add in the wets and you've got $3k in tires in the trailer.

My experience with Hoosiers was the same. First two cycles were the ultimate grip. After one weekend they were 1 sec slower than a sticker set. After 2 weekends, 2-3 secs slower. Plenty of rubber, but junk after two weekends.

This is similar to what I've heard from some Touring and Showroom Stock guys. Spec Racer Ford now runs on Goodyear RS. Anyone have an opinion on those?