14 replies to this topic

[granracing]

I realize it depends on who is entered in both classes, but in general where is a '99 SM more competitve? Any pros or cons to either of these classes? I've run with ITS quite a bit, but never STL (in an ITB car).

[trey]

My take ... 99 SM will be more competitive in ITS

 

99 SM in STL is going to be at a significant disadvantage vs. a well developed STL car ( very few of those out there right now ) ... STL spec motor can make 170ish HP ( others have claimed more ) , STL spec aero is improved ( not sure any of the miata STL cars have gone there yet ) , STL suspension can be more advanced , ect. .... The problem with an true STL spec car is that you get to do all that stuff , then you get to offset it with lots of lead 

[DrDomm]

...and in ITS you can remove the restrictor, right?

[Jim Drago]

...and in ITS you can remove the restrictor, right?

Yes, sort of

[Jim Drago]

My take ... 99 SM will be more competitive in ITS

 

99 SM in STL is going to be at a significant disadvantage vs. a well developed STL car ( very few of those out there right now ) ... STL spec motor can make 170ish HP ( others have claimed more ) , STL spec aero is improved ( not sure any of the miata STL cars have gone there yet ) , STL suspension can be more advanced , ect. .... The problem with an true STL spec car is that you get to do all that stuff , then you get to offset it with lots of lead 

99 STL car definitely will make north of 180, we were 183. I have not yet done much on suspension, but do have a splitter and a wing.. and 2560 lbs

[granracing]

_{Yes, sort of}

 

What you mean? I know, pull out that GCR.

[CruzanTom]

What you mean? I know, pull out that GCR.

As I understand it, under ITS rules, to pull the restrictor, you will need a manual steering rack, not a de-powered steering.

[CruzanTom]

What you mean? I know, pull out that GCR.

As I understand it, under ITS rules, to pull the restrictor, you will need a manual steering rack, not a de-powered steering.

[DrDomm]

As I understand it, under ITS rules, to pull the restrictor, you will need a manual steering rack, not a de-powered steering.

 

Jim referred to this previously.  I looked in the GCR, and I couldn't find it.  Is it too much to ask for someone to quote the specific rule?

[KW78]

There isn't a specific rule for the PS issue.  You have to put several rules together.  

 

A 99-00 1.8 miata is classified in ITS.  As long as the manual rack version and the PS rack version have the same size 1.8L they are both legal and classified.  You can update/backdate between them.   You can pull the PS motor out and put the non-PS motor in.  9.1.3.c

 

You can replace the PS lines 9.1.3.d.h 

 

Your min weight is 2375

 

I guess those with an axe to grind can say that you cannot pull the rack apart for the decoupling mods internally.

 

I don't think the alternate wing window is legal in ITS, although you can put a drivers vent in "the window area"

 

I would have to check the cage rules, but I don't think the dash bar rules are exactly the same.  Its optional in SM.

 

I think the SM is more competitive in ITS, but thats not a national class if you want to double dip at a national.

 

My 02

Kyle

[DrDomm]

Kyle/Jim, are you saying that the following quote...

"No interchange of parts between assemblies is permitted, and ALL PARTS OF AN ASSEMBLY SHALL BE AS ORIGINALLY PRODUCED FOR THAT ASSEMBLY"

...means that you can't remove power steering lines/pump from a power steering rack (assembly)? If so, that was the one thing I wondered about.

(9.1.3.B also says "no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered, or removed." I guess that covers it too)

So, no SM with a depowered rack is legal in IT...even though it‘s equal to the same car with a manual rack? Duh.

[Cy Peake]

Dave, we run our 99s in STU in our region.  Joel in his WRX and the grey/white RX7s are the only barrier to a Miata winning those races.  STU runs with SM2, so we opt to start at the rear quite often so as not to get involved with the SM2 mess up front of those fields.  But we typically wind up at the front by race end.  Passing 30+ cars is FUN.  I think ITS has a 5" minimum ride height rule and the BMWs kill us on the straights.  Run STU with the car (the cage was coming together when I was over there the other day).

[granracing]

Some of my most fun races have been when I've been forced to start at the back of the pack, so yes, that sounds cool.

 

What ride height do you typically run the SMs?

[Brandon]

Thread hijack:

To echo Cy's comment about mixed-class racing (but not necessarily having passed too many cars myself), it is quite a hoot.

 

I did all but one of the NE-area Pro-IT races in 2012 and can say doing so has made me a better driver.

Yes, after the first 10-15 minutes of a race you have to start watching your mirrors (for the faster ITS/ITR cars) but being able to use them as a pick/screen on the guy you're trying to pass is always a treat.

 

Riding faster coattails (and usually a somewhat decent draft for a while if it's a Bimmer) can help reinforce said pass too.  :-)

 

Dave - ride height is always a subjective thing (and generally associated with the track and driver smoothness) but it's my understanding the "good drivers" can take advantage of the increase in spring rate of the bump-stops by riding closer to them than not.  I've heard of one shop who doesn't do "ride height" per se, but instead establishes a "shock rod travel" measurement and set the height based upon that.

 

YMMV, IANAL, BYOB and all that.  

[KW78]

DrD,

 

No that's not what I am saying at all.  The opposite in fact.  The whole rule is :

Any updated/backdated components shall be substituted as a complete assembly (engine long block, transmission/transaxle, induction system, differential/axle housing).

 

They itemize the assemblies.  It doesn't say "for example" or "such as" or "including but not limited to", it gives you the list. 

 

So, you can't put the automatic 1.6 exhaust cam in the manual 1.6 car, because the engine long block falls under this rule.

 

I do think it is minutia like this that are among the many things that stunt the growth of the club.  There is no reason for an IT guy to have an issue with an under prepared SM. (compared to a proper ITS effort miata).  You still can add .5 point compression, better gears, and a header, and an ECU  and go faster.

 

My .02

Kyle

 

 

PS I do like mixed class racing.  We race the 25hour enduro most recent years and it is a keep-you-on-your-toes day long adrenaline rush!!   And, one of our rental 99 SM's in ITS trim (read no restrictor, and BFG's) took second last year.  Good racing!