13 replies to this topic

[trey]

1st : Everybody told me that running in ITA with the mix of small bore classes was going to be different.

After 4 ITA races , I'm coming to the conclusion that it's just a totally different experience. The required racecraft skills can be quite challenging , rewarding and can also drive you nuts.

In SW Division , we run EP,FP,HP,GTL,ITS,ITA,ITB together ... If you love diversity and love working traffic , this is good ... Some of the cars are very quick and you need to watch your mirrors ... The other side of the story is that some of the cars are somewhat speed challenged and even with a SM based ITA car , your going to lap them.

The most challenging thing I've found has been getting owned on the start , having cars you out qualified pass you when your momentum gets broken and then getting around them.

This past Sunday was a perfect example ... I got a great start , but on just about every corner on the opening lap my momentum was broken by " faster " cars , when that happened, I got passed by a 300 HP Mustang and a GTL miata ... And there I sat ... lap after lap after lap ... And that brought other ITA competitors into play ... We had a great race ( still stuck behind )

Any of you ITA vets have any advise in dealing with out of class cars ? ... My assumption is that I'm not racing them , but it sure looks like they are racing me.

At this point , I'm thinking I'm just going to need to get up on the wheel and be very aggressive on starts and don't allow myself to get stuck very long behind " out of class " cars.

[pitbull113]

I love running ITA. Wouldn't even consider running SM now that i've gone to the dark side. In the SE our run group is usually ITR,ITS,ITA,IT7 and ITB. I'm a mid packer and find myself racing the slower ITS cars,other mid packers in ITA and the faster IT7 and ITB cars. I race everyone hard unless I'm being lapped.

[Keith Novak]

You're going to have to get creative. If they have you on power but qualified behind you (only to dive bomb several rows at the start ), you'll need to outdrive them or out think them. If you simply hug their bumper every turn and let them control the pace, it's going to get frustrating when they can just outpower you on the straights.

[red986s]

For me, running a bone stock 1.6 in ITA can be humbling. Especially against the fully built, overbored, MegaSquirt tuned Miatas. They make me look like I'm standing still at the start. Hell there are a couple hardcore ITB cars in my Div that can catch me if I'm not going 100% and on the ragged edge! That's part of the challenge though isn't it? My times/skills (both offensive and defensive) have greatly improved just trying to catch them and keep the others from catching me. Being a mid packer in ITA is where the real fights are. The lack of momentum can be a tough pill to swallow. My last race of the season I got stuck behind a SSC Honda, totally killed my momentum. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get past him, until he lost it in a sweeper. A Miata at full bore in the twisties is a beautiful thing!!!

I think Keith said it all. We just have to get creative.

[Tyler Raatz]

If you are out qualifying the higher HP cars they are only faster in a straight line. Dont EVER let them get comfortable out front after they pass. You should be able to pass them in nearly any corner you want, lay back a little, get a good run and dive under them into your best/their worst corner. Do this EVERY lap until they concede, they will get tired of this. The slower driver will figure out you are faster and should let you run away.

[Keith Novak]

There are some good reasons not to poke your nose under the fast car with a slow driver entering every corner...like sheet metal repairs. Remember,(s)he qualified behind you in an EP car or something so their skills and spatial awareness may not be world class. They're often looking to race with anyone in the general proximity damn near to the death since nobody in their class is anywhere to be seen. Plus drivers of "fast" cars hate getting beaten by Miatas.

If they're that slow on the preferred line that you're pedaling through the corners, are you faster off line than they are on it? Can you rattle their cage getting them to drive in their mirrors? Can you put yourself in a position where they have to brake even later or wait to get on the gas while you're letting your momentum run?

Sometimes if you rattle their cage a bit being all over their mirrors, they'll take themselves out. Similarly, if you make a pass in the twisty bits, even though they can blow your doors off in the next straight, they'll try to keep up instead of waiting and take themselves out that way. Some of my favorite moments in ITA are harrassing drivers to the point where they make worse and worse decisions, and finally...hasta la vista baby. Have a nice trip through the grass. Unfortunately at that point, the group in front is damn near unreachable so getting it done early is key.

[trey]

Thanks for the advise Guys , sounds like I'm going to need to :

- 1 - Go ahead with the Header , MSPNP , Tune for a little more Tq/Hp
- 2 - Get up on the wheel a little more on the starts
- 3 - Develop some blocking skills ( I've done pretty well in other classes for 20 yrs without resorting to blocking )
- 4 - Make very short work of cars holding me up ( no more hugging their tail hoping for a mistake )

So far , all 4 races have been at MSRH ( where the braking zones are very tight ) , hoping this will be a little less of a problem when we get to TWS where braking zones are generally a little more open ... If I can stay in their draft down the front straight , I'll own them in T1, T1a , T2

[red986s]

Thanks for the advise Guys , sounds like I'm going to need to :

- 1 - Go ahead with the Header , MSPNP , Tune for a little more Tq/Hp
- 2 - Get up on the wheel a little more on the starts
- 3 - Develop some blocking skills ( I've done pretty well in other classes for 20 yrs without resorting to blocking )
- 4 - Make very short work of cars holding me up ( no more hugging their tail hoping for a mistake )

I'm doing the same (1-4). No.4 was a hard lesson. I've let non-ITA cars by and regretted it. No more Mr. Nice Guy. I won't "block" but they will have to work at it just like my ITA competition. If they're in front of me, I will keep the pressure on as if he/she were ITA.

[Niklas Falk]

Qualifying/racing in mixed classes have its challenges/merits.
Sure, you're not racing the other classes in the points, but you are fighting for the space on the track.
The one in the "slower" class that can get by the "faster" backmarker first have a huge advantage, so skills pays off, as they should (it's nothing "unfair" about it).

Classes that are close in times but with different speed profiles can be a bit tricky though. That means fast/good drivers in cars doing identical times but one faster on straights and another in the twisties (but thats the 1.6 vs 99 debate but with larger differences ). But this just means that you have to start to play strategy over the race instead of just turn to turn tactics.
An extremely tight class (imagine the whole field within one second) with predictive perfect drives might be a bit boring (imagine a 40 cars chain with no passing during the race).

Backmarkers in high profile cars can be tough to approach with tips, or one might think so until you actually try (video really helps).

[Andy Bettencourt]

One thing to consider is to have a talk with those drivers. They KNOW you are faster than they are (a quick look at the grid sheet will tell them that) and they know they can overtake you at the start. Stick to the inside of T1 if you can get there and make them drive around through that corner if they can.

If they do, let them know in a good conversation that you can both be faster if at some point in the first few laps they point you buy into a braking zone. You should be able to drive away if they don't bomb you at the next corner. Heck, they might even be able to learn something if it's your line and technique that is better than theirs. They need to know that you will have to push the issue if you are losing ground to your competition.

[trey]

Andy , Thanks for confirming my plan :

- get to know the drivers of the out of class cars
- ask " from your perspective , are we racing each other ? "
- ask " how we might work together to accomplish both of our objectives ? "
- BTW : " If I'm behind , or if I'm getting pressure from in class cars , I can't wait"

I spent most of my 20+ SCCA years in SRF and we only had mixed class racing in enduros, but we did get to know each other. After awhile , it was clear who was patient and who was on a mission. Even though it is frustrating , I'm enjoying the challenge of mixed class racing.

[Mike Colangelo]

I'm doing the same (1-4). No.4 was a hard lesson. I've let non-ITA cars by and regretted it. No more Mr. Nice Guy. I won't "block" but they will have to work at it just like my ITA competition. If they're in front of me, I will keep the pressure on as if he/she were ITA.

+1

During one of last year's races at Portland, I tried to be a "cooperative" driver and let a faster non-ITA car by me. Kind of a racer courtesy thing. Well, he went by but not as fast as I had hoped. In the mean time, no less than 5 (FIVE!!!) of my ITA competitors tucked in right behind him like a train and passed me. Never again.

[William Bonsell]

I'm certainly no expert, but the most fun I had last year were in big mixed groups. As a new driver, it is easy to spend too much time looking at who is behind you rather than focusing on competitors in front of you. I learned the best thing is to just drive my line and anticipate a pass on the straighter sections from the guys who have the power. Just take a quick peek in mirrors prior to turn in to make sure you haven't been "dive bombed". Certainly try and protect the inside line of the first corner if you can. Letting a faster car pass you, implies to me anyway, that you have either slowed up or altered your line to be a gentlemen, but as Mike states, you may live to regret that courtesy.

Bill

[Rob Burgoon]

Andy , Thanks for confirming my plan :

- get to know the drivers of the out of class cars
- ask " from your perspective , are we racing each other ? "
- ask " how we might work together to accomplish both of our objectives ? "
- BTW : " If I'm behind , or if I'm getting pressure from in class cars , I can't wait"

You're basically screwed in ITA. I'd build a horsepower car. If you need to win, against truly fast guys you'd probably have to play dirty.

You bring a knife to a gun fight if you build a momentum car in a mixed class.