19 replies to this topic

[Jim Weidenbaum]

We have 6 SM's registered thus far for our May 4 -5 2X Regional Race at PIR.  We need to have at least to double the present car count in order to keep SM as a separate race group. 

 

Last September, we had a great SM turnout for our 3X race weekend at PIR, without some of our regulars. There's no reason we can't have another great turnout at our May race.  This race weekend counts towards Full Fields and for the Northwest Regional Challenge.

 

To help celebrate Cinco de Mayo, we've got 24 oz bottles of "Mexican Champaign" (Corona) for race winners on Sunday (over age 21), plus  every race worker gets a white Corona t-shirt.  We've requested Corona for the post-race party (I can't donate that due to PIR's agreement with the concessionaire) too.  Please sign up ... come out on what should be a great May race.  Hope to see you all there. Salud!

 

Jim Weidenbaum

[Kyle Keenan]

So if Robert runs and wins, does he get a coke?

 

Stoaked for next weekend!

[Kyle Freiheit]

Sorry, 

 I was hoping to get out racing sooner this season but its just not going to happen. Good luck guys!

[Terrell Garrett]

Jim,

 

The concept of mandating that we have a certain number of cars or we lose our run group is troubling.  After all, if you look at the entries we are the second largest class and my two cars are not entered yet.  I personally don't mind if you throw in a couple of similar speed cars as Conference does.  However, if we get into a disparate speed situation I am gone and will not come back.  There are other choices in the marketplace.

 

We are still doing a crappy job of inclusion and mandating minimum car counts will certainly cause further exclusion.  I know this is an issue but I don't like the tone.  Perhaps a healthy discussion on how to get more cars entered (i.e. beg some Conference people to come play) is more in order.

[Kyle Keenan]

I know this might seem counter-productive, but what about allowing CSM to come back in the sense that you can run under ICSCC/NASA tire rules? There was at least 4 drivers at the ICSCC race this weekend that want to come play with SCCA but don't want to drop money on a set of hoo-hoos for one weekend.

 

Terrell, better bring the kid out this weekend!

[Randy Thieme]

I know this might seem counter-productive, but what about allowing CSM to come back in the sense that you can run under ICSCC/NASA tire rules? There was at least 4 drivers at the ICSCC race this weekend that want to come play with SCCA but don't want to drop money on a set of hoo-hoos for one weekend.

 

Terrell, better bring the kid out this weekend!

There was a discussion and vote on tires over the winter.  The majority was against an open tire.  The topic of CSM also came up in discussion within the last 6 months or so which I believe led to removing that class.  If there's real evidence of lost opportunities for car-counts, which Kyle seems to have, maybe these topics need discussion again.  So - why not have a regional semi-open tire rule limited to DOT tires only? (De-facto RA-1's, R-888's, SM-6's, and H2O's.) 

[Kyle Freiheit]

Considering that there is a new player in town, maybe an open tire does make more sense(inclusive!). That being said, has anyone seen any information about the Toyo RR in terms of heat cycling, durability and speed as compared to the SM6? 

 

Kyle

[William Bonsell]

As someone who strongly advocated against a REGIONAL Hoosier tire, but who supported doing away with CSM, you are now seeing the problem with tires and cost. We all want decent track time and a large enough group to make it fun. CSM is not an option IMO, because drivers wishing to cross over want to race against the SM guys, not just among themselves in a subclass. Personally I do not wish to purchase Hoosiers just to jump into a SCCA race though I want to do the SCCA at the Ridge. So do I run STL or STU....no fun for me.

There are also several Conference racers, who while currently on Hoosiers, would prefer to be on either RA1's or the new RR because of several reasons. According to current Conference rules, they are all on Hoosier next year...unless a rule change is proposed which is highly likely. While Conference certainly has great entries, both SCCA and NASA IMO need to encourage as much cross over racing as possible. The NASA SM tire is Toyo (RA1's for the first 2 events and then the RR) and their is no regional option. But there are racers out there, both SCCA and Conference who no doubt would like to jump into a NASA event from time to time, especially if one is had at their home track. This weekend at PR for instance is the first NASA event. 140 minutes of track time for $299. Will be interesting to see what the numbers are.

For Conference as well as SCCA regionally, a Toyo or Hoosier option - your choice would have been the most inclusive, other than an open tire as many SCCA regions do. But, hopefully 2014 will offer better options. Personally I'd like to run Rose Cup again, but I don't want to buy a set of Hoosiers just for two SCCA events.

Bill-

[Kyle Keenan]

Let me be clear- I'm not trying to re-ignite the tire rule debate, just simply saying it might help entries to bring back a CSM-type class that allows ICSCC and NASA approved tires.

[Randy Thieme]

As someone who strongly advocated against a REGIONAL Hoosier tire, but who supported doing away with CSM, you are now seeing the problem with tires and cost. We all want decent track time and a large enough group to make it fun. CSM is not an option IMO, because drivers wishing to cross over want to race against the SM guys, not just among themselves in a subclass. Personally I do not wish to purchase Hoosiers just to jump into a SCCA race though I want to do the SCCA at the Ridge. So do I run STL or STU....no fun for me.

There are also several Conference racers, who while currently on Hoosiers, would prefer to be on either RA1's or the new RR because of several reasons. According to current Conference rules, they are all on Hoosier next year...unless a rule change is proposed which is highly likely. While Conference certainly has great entries, both SCCA and NASA IMO need to encourage as much cross over racing as possible. The NASA SM tire is Toyo (RA1's for the first 2 events and then the RR) and their is no regional option. But there are racers out there, both SCCA and Conference who no doubt would like to jump into a NASA event from time to time, especially if one is had at their home track. This weekend at PR for instance is the first NASA event. 140 minutes of track time for $299. Will be interesting to see what the numbers are.

For Conference as well as SCCA regionally, a Toyo or Hoosier option - your choice would have been the most inclusive, other than an open tire as many SCCA regions do. But, hopefully 2014 will offer better options. Personally I'd like to run Rose Cup again, but I don't want to buy a set of Hoosiers just for two SCCA events.

Bill-

 

This year's rule was decided by vote and probably again for next year.  So the key to any campaign is to persuade enough people.  If there are Conference or NASA drivers who would race with OR/SCCA if there was either a CSM class or open DOT tire rule that needs to be communicated clearly as fact.  I think Kyle has started to do that by citing a specific number of drivers he knew were willing to race with OR/SCCA.

[Terrell Garrett]

While I voted for Hoosier only perhaps tires are an excluding factor.  As far as a CSM class combined with SM I have no issues whatsoever with that.  

 

The bottom line is that if we don't find a way to get more cars on the track this discussion will be moot.  I think a lot of the problem has to do with our well earned reputation as being elitist.  Yes, SCCA SM drivers are very fast as a group compared to other organizations.  And yes, we have very little variation within the class.  Conference has everything from junkyard motors to Loynings engines, CSM to SM, slow people to fast people, etc. which makes for large car counts and racing for everyone.  We all seem to be worried about being the fastest, perhaps we need to cater to the slower group and make it fun for them so they will come out and fill the field.  Of course, in large part that goes back to the recruitment issue where again we fail miserably.

 

I only understand the problem.  Unfortunately I have no clue how to solve it.

[LarryKing]

More prep!

[Randy Thieme]

As of this morning we have 12 cars.  I have a new motor with shiny new pistons.   

[Jim Weidenbaum]

We've got 13 (and expected to grow) SM's for the May 4-5 race, so we have our own SM run group.  Thank you! My only intent was to communicate clearly how we needed more than 6 SM's to keep our stand-alone race group. We've all seen, in the past, half a dozen production or formula cars circling the track ... with many folks wondering aloud why we didn't consolidate that group with other production or formula cars, which we did. 

 

Seems like every major road racing sanctioning body is moving to a spec tire for SM (consistent with the "S"), so SCCA Oregon Region is true to course having a spec tire, as voted by SM racers. While the spec tire discussion is settled for 2013, if SM as a group wants a change for next year, then by all means, please bring it forward through class advisor and Ass't RE, Bruce Wilson (or me). 

 

The SM racer on a super tight budget, meaning a stock motor and used tires, may be fast, but not as fast as she/he'd be with a pro motor and fresh tires (believe that's irrefutable).  My point is same racer is on the same grid with the same skills --whether she/he has first rate or third world equipment -- the only difference being where in the field she/he races and places.  So, if your junkyard engined car with 2 year old rubber finishes 8th among 15 cars and you look around and everyone around you ran the race with a pro motor and fresh tires --  you "done good."  I think everyone respects what Pat Newton and Kyle Keenan have accomplished without big dog motors. We didn't need to create a second class of SM for their cars -- and if we did -- it wouldn't have changed a thing in overall track position.

 

Ask anyone who ran SM in the September 2012 SCCA Triple Regional Race or the March 2013 Regional race whether they had someone to run with? I believe the overwhelming response would be yes! 29 cars at the September race does that ... but, even the March race with a bit more than half that many cars proved to be fun for all.  So, for any Conference racers on the fence, please come race with SCCA over Cinco de Mayo weekend. You can race with your Conference license and we generally wave the cost of a temporary SCCA license. The weather will be beautiful and the competition will be great. 

 

Thanks again for signing up!  Remember: unless you are testing with Pro Drive on Friday, due to Rally Oregon using PIR's track and and access roads, you will be unable to get into the North Paddock until approximately 10:00 PM Friday night.  You can leave trailers in the parking lot on the south side of Broadacre, then move them into the North Paddock once Rally Oregon activities are completed around 10:00 PM.  Thanks!

 

Jim

[Bruce Wilson]

Yeah, we already decided on tires (as a group).  We're totally open to CSM or something else if we have support.  Just didn't seem like anyone was interested in the concept last year.

 

Thank JIm for drumming it up.  You sales guys make the world go round  

 

For context on this thread, there was a lot of agnst about some of our group going to Utah for this weekend.  I need to talk to the people sporting that perception and remind them that most of the cars going there aren't really regulars anymore. 

 

unbeknownst to most of you, Jim is leading the charge in Oregon Region to remove the barriers to entry.  It will take some time, but I'm looking forward to seeing many new faces at our races.

 

Looking forward to seeing you all this weekend!

[Dani Ferrara]

I have to agree with the tire rule as a barrier for crossover between clubs. Personally, I would still be running our old RA1s if I could, and that would allow me more funds to race more weekends. Instead I'll be buying some new Hoosiers (which will be my first time on fresh tires...unless someone wants to throw their old ones my way! ) 

 

I don't think CSM makes a difference either way. I can't think of anyone who distinguishes a CSM from SM while on track, all it does is leaves a door open for other people to join us in the fun!

I guess that's my little tid bit...I wish I could be there this weekend, but it's just not in the funds (plus it's our double birthday weekend, so I'll be in Bend visiting my family). I'll see you all at Rose Cup!

[Terrell Garrett]

One thing about our group is that after a few laps there are a couple of races going on but mostly just a bunch of people getting track time.  With the variety and car counts in Conference there is always someone to race with to include those you are lapping.  Such a situation would do well to hone our strategy skills and might shake placement up a bit.  Can be fun.  I just don't want to run with ground pounders or Porsches.

[Keith Novak]

I've done the last 2 conference races and the enduro.  A few observations about conference:

• Almost everyone is running Hoosiers
• 25% or less of the cars are running CSM
• Their program puts a lot of emphasis on developing novices
• People are far more social

Back when Kyle, Randy, Terrell and I started it was far more social in SCCA.  We all sort of grouped up with people because people like Bruce, Ken, Gary Red, Will, etc more or less acted like mentors.  They taught the school.  They organized events to bring people together and people didn't attend the BBQ to save $6 to buy a burger at the track..  They gave us help in a million unquantifiable ways.  The people who built the class have a lot going on now and we haven't really filled that void. Today, people mostly prep their cars, drive their sessions, study their data, hang out in small groups, and leave ASAP at day's end.  I know most of the workers and officials from the afternoon BBQs and rarely see drivers there. 

 

I'm incredibly busy these days too so I race wherever and whenever I can.  When I show up at conference, I have a hard time getting to grid on time.  From the time I get there to the time I leave, everyone is chatting, introducing themselves, offering to help with anything, novices are asking for advice or interviewing drivers for their license program, yada and more yada...  I'm  an introvert by nature and I've made a ton of friends there in a lot of different classes because people seem to treat the weekend is as much about the comradarie as the racing.  I feel rude sometimes there because I'm trying to get all my prep done and people are coming out of the woodwork to hang out.

 

I like SCCA for the friends I have there and I get to measure myself against the very best drivers  even if I just end up lapping at some point.  There's a really simple way to encourage people to race with SM in SCCA that doesn't involve tires or extra classes that I've seen in conference.  When you see someone in SM that you haven't met yet, go out of your way to meet them.  They're car racers.  You know you already have something in common to talk about and at the very least you can put a face to the car and timing sheet.

 

Just my $.02

Keith

[William Bonsell]

A few more observations from someone who will race with anyone, anywhere...Conference, SCCA or now NASA.

 

1.  Of the 13 SM entries so far for this weekend, only 1 (Robert) is from Seattle. If I lived in Portland, I'd probably do a whole lot more SCCA racing. It's about location, location, location.

2.  In 2012, there were only 2 SCCA CSM entries and both were from Rose Cup. So, the few CSM Conference racers from Portland (Hindman, LeBlanc, Heinrich) don't jump into the SCCA races...someone should as them why.

3.  With few exceptions, the SM grid is rarely larger than 20 and sometimes closer to 10. And it can become a lapping day pretty quickly if you don't have one person running similar times. Ask me how I know this. Is it time to seriously discuss a mixed grid. I have run a lot of Group 2 with Conference. Grids are never less than 25 and often are over 35. The Pro44's generally are quickest, but there is always something going on somewhere, and it has never become lapping day. Obviously, the combining of groups would free up time for more track time. This is what NWR ended up doing, albeit very late to affect registration in April, but they almost doubled track time. Isn't it often about track time when it comes to spending money.

4.  Combine Oregon and NWR for racing. Have one championship and require that in order to win the "SM Championship" you must do all the events "outside your" home track. Portland racers would have to attend all the regionals up north and vice versa. NWR has given out "Championship" trophies for TWO races....

5.  With the exception of NASA which specs Toyo on a national level with NO ability to deviate, the only way to really encourage more crossover racing is to spec both Toyo and Hoosier for regional racing or go to a open tire as MANY SCCA regions do. If NASA, for instance, has the same schedule for their Portland race as they are using this weekend at Pacific (160 minutes of track time including two 40 minute races for only $299), are any of the Oregon SCCA guys going to want to buy that value package. You'll need Toyo's...

6.  While the championship contenders in Conference are on Hoosiers, some would rather not be! I know this personally. So don't think that every Conference racer on Hoosiers prefers that. There are still more on Toyo's, and you very well may see a rule change proposal to avoid the "Hoosier only" for 2014 as their rule goes off SCCA.

7. I have always enjoyed most everyone I've met over the past several years, SCCA or Conference, but Keith is right, Conference does have a bit more of a family thing going on. And they know they are minor league compared to SCCA Spec Miata. They keep being told. And they do a very good job of attracting new racers. The last novice race at Portland had 23 entries I believe.

 

For me personally, it is about track time, location, cost (including towing) and tires. Provide more track time, lesser cost and a more flexible tire option (WITHOUT offering a subclass like CSM). And all of this is applicable to SCCA Northwest as well. But, right now for some of us, it is all about the tires. We are really a unique racing area. We now have 3 racing bodies trying to attract as many racers as possible, most of them living withing a 150-200 mile radius. Find a way to be more inclusive and everyone's entries would grow I would think.

 

I applaud anyone with any of the organizations trying to think outside the box to attract entries.

 

Bill-

[Kyle Keenan]

Looking forward to this weekend! Party at Terrell's trailer! (He doesnt know it yet....)