17 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

People have asked this several times before. I got another call today.
I will answer again here.

If you are running in STL in your SM, you need to run in one of the following configurations:


1)You can run as an SM, that means EXACTLY how you race it in SM, WITH RESTRICTOR and in current SM weight, configuration

2)You can run it as an STL car, at STL weight appropriate for your displacement

3) You can run in IT trim, for a 99 that is 2385, with MANUAL RACK only.

If you are choosing to pull your restrictor plate and run STL without a manual rack or full power steering set up, you are Non compliant in ITS trim and must add the appropriate STL weightof 2585. You can not pick and choose what rules you will run.

We now have people choosing to collect contingency dollars and tires with knowingly non compliant cars or perhaps feeling that the rule is silly and they need not abide it.

In IT, if it doesn't say you can, you can not. there is no Vin rule, so you can convert to a manual rack if you like, but if you depower your rack and pull your plate, you are cheating the other competitors and taking contingency dollars that you do not deserve. If you want to run STL with your SM, your best option is to buy and install a manual rack or run with the restrictor plate.


The rule may be a silly one, I personally don't agree with it, but it is the rule. Your alternatives are to run legally, run non compliant or to send in a letter suggesting a rules change.

Thanks
Jim

[Mike Collins]

I consulted several drivers at NJMP this weekend.  Most were oblivious to the rules....

[Chad Martin]

Out of curiosity.  For years 90 thru 05 was power steering a factory "option" on the base model cars?  Did it depend on the year?

[Mike Collins]

Out of curiosity.  For years 90 thru 05 was power steering a factory "option" on the base model cars?  Did it depend on the year?

 

Not sure I understand your question.  The base model car's had manual steering racks.  Power steering was an option or included with various levels of trim.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I personally converted to MANUAL rack!  I had been wanting to do so and this was the thing that nudged me to get it done.  The contingencies that I won have already paid for all biut $50.00 of tyhe conversion...

 

Frank todaro, is running his car in SM trim no matter hwo uncompetitive it is in that trim level as he IS NOT A CHEATER... 

 

I personally think the rule is BS, but it is the rule none the less...  In a another year this will not be much of a factor I dont think, as no SM with a restrictor pulled will beat a full STL car of any make with even an average driver behind the wheel.  Thus you will not podium and not collect the congency money... 

 

There are already Honda's running that are 10 mph faster on every straight then my SM with the restrictor pulled... And they are cleaning up on the cash for the time being untill someone really gets focused on building and running a full STL car, much as Drago did last year. 

[ner88]

I think it will be very difficult to get this rule change as it only applies to Miatas.

The IT community already has issues with too many Miatas...

Just sayin!

[Joe (dad) Jordan]

At the Pacific Raceways Majors ...please note we run a 1.6 1991 miata, we told them the weight to be 2255 inSTL trim.  They asked if we had a driveshaft strap, we said no.  Then not legal for STL.  We then said what about ITA trim, we were told our wheels were too big.  They said we had to run at spec miata weight.  They measured us twice and we were 2300lbs on the nose.  If our driver didn't drink a lot of water we would not have made it and lost significant contingency money.  We will run our Spec Miata 1.6 at Spec miata weight just to be safe.  We run STL for the contingencies and have been outclassed by Honda's.  With BFG's we can run with the 99's without restricters but now they are switching tires Second in STL pays like a win in SM!

 

People have asked this several times before. I got another call today.
I will answer again here.

If you are running in STL in your SM, you need to run in one of the following configurations:


1)You can run as an SM, that means EXACTLY how you race it in SM, WITH RESTRICTOR and in current SM weight, configuration

2)You can run it as an STL car, at STL weight appropriate for your displacement

3) You can run in IT trim, for a 99 that is 2385, with MANUAL RACK only.

If you are choosing to pull your restrictor plate and run STL without a manual rack or full power steering set up, you are Non compliant in ITS trim and must add the appropriate STL weightof 2585. You can not pick and choose what rules you will run.

We now have people choosing to collect contingency dollars and tires with knowingly non compliant cars or perhaps feeling that the rule is silly and they need not abide it.

In IT, if it doesn't say you can, you can not. there is no Vin rule, so you can convert to a manual rack if you like, but if you depower your rack and pull your plate, you are cheating the other competitors and taking contingency dollars that you do not deserve. If you want to run STL with your SM, your best option is to buy and install a manual rack or run with the restrictor plate.


The rule may be a silly one, I personally don't agree with it, but it is the rule. Your alternatives are to run legally, run non compliant or to send in a letter suggesting a rules change.

Thanks
Jim

[davew]

I ran 3 cars in STL, all with plates.

 

The only exception to what Jim has written is tires, as found on page 532  

 

" 4. Spec Miata cars completely conforming to Spec Miata class specifications are eligible for STL. Spec Tire not required in STL."

 

I doubt you will be able to get the IT group to allow depowered racks. The only potential I see is to get an "Alternate vehicle allowance" written into the STL rules. Start the letter writing !!!!!

[KW78]

I agree with most things said here about the rules.  You have to follow the rules for the good of the club, even if they seem silly in your particular application.

 

What aggravates me is that many people who go to the rule book to cite a point should know their sh!t, and so often they don't!

 

 

At the Pacific Raceways Majors ...please note we run a 1.6 1991 miata, we told them the weight to be 2255 inSTL trim.  They asked if we had a driveshaft strap, we said no.  Then not legal for STL.  We then said what about ITA trim, we were told our wheels were too big.  They said we had to run at spec miata weight.  They measured us twice and we were 2300lbs on the nose.  If our driver didn't drink a lot of water we would not have made it and lost significant contingency money.  We will run our Spec Miata 1.6 at Spec miata weight just to be safe.  We run STL for the contingencies and have been outclassed by Honda's.  With BFG's we can run with the 99's without restricters but now they are switching tires Second in STL pays like a win in SM!

 

 

Jesus...  OK...

 

If your going to be in STL and claim STL PREPARATION LEVEL  (not WC, IT or SM) then yes you have to keep in mind the exceptions afforded a SM or IT build.

. 

 

9.1.4.F.3    Cars that have drive shafts shall have 2 steel, 360-degree loops of sufficient strength located as close as possible to the front and rear universal joints to prevent the driveshaft from dropping in case of failure of either universal joint. Floor materials, torque tubes and cross members may also be utilized to provide this protection.

 

So a power plant frame, and the floor can be considered in the case of a miata. 

 

Also keep in mind that a dash bar is required for a STL cage, as is the 7th and 8th attachment points going forward from the down tubes to the firewall - all these bars are excepted and recommended in IT or SM.

 

We were told we needed a fire system too, not just an extinguisher like in SM or IT, but Super Touring category is on the exception list!!

 

ITA - "your wheels are too big"..  WHAT?!   You are allowed max of 7" wheels in ITA and ITS.  Your spec line for a 1.6 ITA miata is a 15" wheel.  You are specifically allowed to have bigger diameter wheels than stock in the IT category, up to your spec line max.    So 15x7 miata wheels are allowed for all miatas.  Any tire you can put on that rim and pass the "rolling tread thru flour from above" test.  225's work fine.

 

Presuming you are a legal SM and therefor have not exceeded ITA in some other area, Your ITA minimum weight applying to STL as an IT PREPPED ENTRY is 2255!

 

94-97 is 2460  (Ridiculous!)

 

99-00  is 2375

 

01-04 is 2375

 

"GCR listed ITS, ITA, ITB, and ITC cars......  may compete in STL under their current IT specifications"

 

People have asked this several times before. I got another call today.
I will answer again here.

If you are running in STL in your SM, you need to run in one of the following configurations:


1)You can run as an SM, that means EXACTLY how you race it in SM, WITH RESTRICTOR and in current SM weight, configuration

2)You can run it as an STL car, at STL weight appropriate for your displacement

3) You can run in IT trim, for a 99 that is 2385, with MANUAL RACK only.

If you are choosing to pull your restrictor plate and run STL without a manual rack or full power steering set up, you are Non compliant in ITS trim and must add the appropriate STL weightof 2585. You can not pick and choose what rules you will run.

We now have people choosing to collect contingency dollars and tires with knowingly non compliant cars or perhaps feeling that the rule is silly and they need not abide it.

In IT, if it doesn't say you can, you can not. there is no Vin rule, so you can convert to a manual rack if you like, but if you depower your rack and pull your plate, you are cheating the other competitors and taking contingency dollars that you do not deserve. If you want to run STL with your SM, your best option is to buy and install a manual rack or run with the restrictor plate.


The rule may be a silly one, I personally don't agree with it, but it is the rule. Your alternatives are to run legally, run non compliant or to send in a letter suggesting a rules change.

Thanks
Jim

 

 

Jim,  as you say there is no vin rule, so you can use ANY RACK that came on a mazda miata convertible with a 1.8 liter (So - all of them) that is on your particular spec line.    So no, you can't use an 01 rack in a 1.6 car, but manual or power from the same year are both legal.  Update/backdate is specifically allowed so it says "you can".  I do agree that you can not do internal mods to the rack, so I guess the IT guys assume all SM guys have done the internal mods?

 

Kyle

[Jim Drago]

Everyone is welcome to interpret the rule any way they like.  But the fact is if you can either run a manual rack or a power rack, if you run a power rack, it needs to be attached to power steering lines and a pump. You can change the pulley on your pump if you like. Short of that, you are non compliant in IT trim. It is either or, not pick what works best.  Again, I am not an IT guy, not my favorite rule, but that is the rule and how it is applied. if you are protested for no plate and not in IT trim, you will lose, every time.

[Mike Collins]

Shhh.  I was so ready to cash in on that at COTA

[FTodaro]

I personally converted to MANUAL rack!  I had been wanting to do so and this was the thing that nudged me to get it done.  The contingencies that I won have already paid for all biut $50.00 of tyhe conversion...

 

Frank todaro, is running his car in SM trim no matter hwo uncompetitive it is in that trim level as he IS NOT A CHEATER... 

 

I personally think the rule is BS, but it is the rule none the less...  In a another year this will not be much of a factor I dont think, as no SM with a restrictor pulled will beat a full STL car of any make with even an average driver behind the wheel.  Thus you will not podium and not collect the congency money... 

 

There are already Honda's running that are 10 mph faster on every straight then my SM with the restrictor pulled... And they are cleaning up on the cash for the time being untill someone really gets focused on building and running a full STL car, much as Drago did last year. 

thank you Kyle I ran STL at MIS and at Mid O with the plate, did not do well in terms of the podium but I was really doing it for the practice in SM so running with the plate was good for practice so I could see how I was doing on the lap times.

[Chad Martin]

Not sure I understand your question.  The base model car's had manual steering racks.  Power steering was an option or included with various levels of trim.

Yeah my basic question is was power steering ever standard equipment on any year base model miata from 90 to 05?

[Jim Drago]

yes all cars 90-05 were available with power or manual steering
Jim

[Chad Martin]

So it was always an option for every year 90-05, NOT standard equipment on the base model for any of those years?

 

I'm asking for reference in Performance Touring...the SM guys cheat more than anyone by using PT to cross class into enduro...long explanation ill spare you SCCA guys from...

[Mike Collins]

So it was always an option for every year 90-05, NOT standard equipment on the base model for any of those years?

 

I'm asking for reference in Performance Touring...the SM guys cheat more than anyone by using PT to cross class into enduro...long explanation ill spare you SCCA guys from...

 

Power Steering was an OPTION in 90-99

 

Power Steering was Standard Equipment in 2000-2005

 

Manual Steering was a package option on only 50 cars in 2003 in the SCCA Specific "Club Sport"  This car was only offered for sale to SCCA members initially.  While a few dealerships did take delivery and not sell them to members, there were not many.

[Chad Martin]

Perfect!  Thank you!  Sorry bout the thread jack, carry on.

[KW78]

Everyone is welcome to interpret the rule any way they like. 

 

 

Actually this is the problem, and it is SCCA wide.   It was a problem way back in ITA with my first car (an RX3) and still continues.   People have OPINIONS on what the rules mean, OPINIONS on what they think the intent is, OPINIONS on the spirit of the rule.  But when you get a rulebook out to build a car, the black and white meaning of the rule is what tech and others need to limit their evaluation to.   Just because a bunch of IT guys don't want SM in their classes and want to torture the rules to that end, doesn't make it so.   Just because a tech guy tells a 1.6 that he can't have 15x7 rims doesn't make it so. 

 

But hey this is all , just like way back when....  

 

Kyle