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Team Racing - The future of Spec Miata????

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#181
LarryKing

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I haven't heard of or thought of any effective and reasonable way to curb it

 

I really believe that the officials could stop just about any on-track behavior they wanted to through consistent, harsh penalties. If they wanted to stop bumpdrafting and threw-out qualifying times or DQed race results - EVERY TIME - NO EXCEPTIONS - I bet the great majority of drivers would never bumpdraft again.

 

Would they catch every occurrence - of course not.

 

Can a thief rob a bank and get away with it - you bet. But the consequence of prison time is enough to keep 99.99% of people from ever committing a felony.

 

Same deal with enforcing the GCR.


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#182
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Discussion:

 

This is a how come question. How come none of you folks that desire a change be made to SCCA GCR rule 6.11.1.A. so that bump drafting is legal haven't written a letter to the CRB?   :huh:

 

That ^ seems to be the pat (lower case Mr. Slattery) answer to all other desires/requests/whatever. 


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#183
suck fumes

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Because its easier and faster to get a rules change on the forum then have to wait a Month or more to get a "thank you for your input answer" haha.
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#184
MPR22

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I really believe that the officials could stop just about any on-track behavior they wanted to through consistent, harsh penalties. If they wanted to stop bumpdrafting and threw-out qualifying times or DQed race results - EVERY TIME - NO EXCEPTIONS - I bet the great majority of drivers would never bumpdraft again.

Would they catch every occurrence - of course not.

Can a thief rob a bank and get away with it - you bet. But the consequence of prison time is enough to keep 99.99% of people from ever committing a felony.

Same deal with enforcing the GCR.

The SCCA has lost a significant share of its SM racers to NASA. Believe it or not if all SM racing was done in the SCCA there would be no doubt about which group had the most entrants. The SCCA does not operate in a vacuum and is forced to listen to the SM "majority" membership (regardless of why the GCR says). If the majority of the SM drivers don't like the rules they have alternatives. I dare say if the Dragos, Steyns, Haldemans, Ballanos, Clements, Berry, ...........(name your west coast) drivers decide to spend their dollars in NASA then the SCCA has a real problem, not because 5-10 drivers leave but because the best in the business are no longer available to test your medal against.
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#185
Mike Collins

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if the stewards order impound all with open hoods and trunks as they have in the past and you refuse, you can be hit with 6 month suspension.If a bunch of competitors get together and all agree except you and they ask you to open your hood you can tell them, well, You can tell them whatever you like and you don't have to open anything.


You are incorrect Sir. If the CS orders open hoods and trunks that's fine...you can do it in private with the Tech Line Chief for your class...you do not have to show your competitors anything!
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#186
Brocodile

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My observations concerning bump drafting have come up on this thread. Danny posted a link to the bump drafting thread. I have nothing to add on that subject as such. The subject of this thread is team racing. Bump drafting is relevant to team racing only insofar as it is one of the many tactics which can be employed by teammates. Take away bumping and you still have drafting, which is legal, and running interference for a teammate by racing hard behind him, which is also legal as long as it does not rise to the level of blocking for a teammate, which is illegal, but which, unfortunately, I believe I myself have witnessed. Note: I said I believe I have witnessed it, but I can't prove it.

 

So, take away bump drafting and you remove one of the more effective tactics from team racers, but you by no means eliminate the benefits of team racing; you just shift the emphasis to other tactics, for better or worse. Jim Creighton's admonishment to be careful what you wish for applies equally to to the strict prohibition of bump drafting as it does to permitting it. Eliminating a tactic which is employed in plain sight will push team tactics into gray areas. (Refer to my statement above regarding team blocking). This will have the additional unintended consequence of creating suspicion among competitors, with attendant drama and ill feelings, with no way to prove what's really going on and thereby resolve the conflict. As an aside, bump drafting will not be an issue when the runoffs are held at Laguna, but let's see if the team driving question goes away or merely shifts its focus.

 

Two things must be borne in mind throughout this entire discussion. First, no rule can be effective without broad support among the governed. At least here in the SEDiv, once the no-contact rule as applied to bump drafting became honored only in the breach, there was no way to enforce it. Stewards couldn't see every piece of track, and the few drivers who opposed bumping were unwilling to be "That Guy" by filing protests with video evidence. Eventually, the officials acknowledged the policy already in effect: look the other way. And it's not just a SEDiv thing; despite an explicit no-no in the supps, bump-drafting was ubiquitous at the June Sprints this year. Second, no rule can be effective unless it can be implemented practically and expeditiously. For example, the bump drafting rule is simple. It's bump or no-bump: no gray area. Yet, in practice, it is impossible to implement because there are not enough "police" and there are no "whistle blowers". Team racing is even more problematic. The very nature of team racing defies any attempt to abolish it, even if it were agreed that it should be abolished. Likewise, it is extremely difficult even to regulate. It is full of gray areas. Fact-finding becomes a judgement call in most cases, with attendant risks of inconsistency. Hearings and appeals drag out. Every case turns on contested and unique facts, so no real precedents are established.

 

Ironically, team racing is the product of of the substantial achievement of the ultimate goal of spec racing: parity (at least at the pointy end, which may include twenty cars at this year's Runoffs). There are so many great drivers and the quality and prep level of the cars is so consistently equivalent that racers are forced to look for an edge anywhere they can find it. So, yes, team racing is both the present and future of Spec Miata, at least so long as the competition is as tight and intense as it is today. And, no, team racing will not ruin the class, but tactical skullduggery may. It's essential that team tactics be confined to the light end of the gray area. Stewards and rules can't make that happen. Only we drivers can do it.


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#187
DrDomm

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In a well attended race at a track like Road America, is it safer to allow bump drafting? I'd be concerned about all the added pass attempts or braking that could cause chain reaction incidents.

Also, is the GCR rule written to prevent bump drafting? Or are we just interpreting it that way. It obviously prohibits contact, but I think the intent is to promote safety.

I just wonder if bump drafting is a bit safer than just drafting...cause you can't get rid of drafting at tracks like Road America in a car like an SM.
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#188
Adax

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skullduggery

Skip, keepin' it real :thumbsup:


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#189
Caveman-kwebb99

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I can truly say that real team racing is very hard to beat!  I got a birds eye view of some very smart team racing, I was even the designatied pusher on a start but with a legit car, I had old ass tires everyone on stickers, I pushed Drago and Sterns to the front and cam out of t2 in p3... before I even got to the oval I had dropped to p5 as guys could pass me on either side as everyone was on stickers but me.  I wil not go into details as to what all I learned abotu team racing as I will leave that up to others to figure out on their own what I got to learn first hand from IMO the best team in SM.  Congrats to Jim on his National points championship, He would have won it racing alone IMO, but having teamates working together makes this so much easier to accomplish! there so many decisions go into this that most probably do not realize.  Still the best Car, and Driver Combo won the national points championship, regardless of team work... 

 

Say what you will I know a 6'4 300lb man should not be able to even fit in this chick car let alone win races or championships.  Jim is the real deal and has some serious tallent in the driver seat!


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#190
Todd Green

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So what's the call at Miller for the Runoffs?

J~

Sorry, "real" life has kept me off the forums for the last month and I'm just now catching up.  First I'm going to assume you mean the NASA Championship, since the runoffs isn't at Miller. ;) AFAIK, the National staff runs that event, and the Regional staff has little to do with it, so you'll have to ask them for a definitive answer.  We explicitly allow it at "regional" events (per Director announcements at driver meetings.)  Also as was pointed out, if you read between the lines in the rules, since "contact" is defined as damage and unless you knock someone off line, there is no penalty, it is allowed by the rules.  If you watch previous years' vids of the Championships, it seems to be allowed as well. :)


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