13 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

Hey Guys,

 

Below is a video of the restart from Sundays race at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. The car in the video is about 8-9 cars back in the field. The SM group is the second group on track with PTE. The double yellow came out after lap one when two PTE cars beached in T6. After about 6 safety car laps the track is about ready to go green. At the start of the video the cars are on the back half of the track. You will see that there are still safety crews still on track with double yellows flying, however lights are out on the safety car. The driver in the vid cannot pass yet when the PTE cars get the green flag. There are still double yellows at this section of the track. But all the cars that have passed this section of track are green. The problem is that the race is over at this point for anyone further back than 4th or so in the SM group. Typically I don't care about this sort of thing because I feel that the leader is the driver that most often gets screwed in restarts. But this does seem a bit extreme as it put much more distance between mid pack racers than existed before the safety car.

 

Is this right? Did I just mess up and not call to the driver that the track was green as soon as the PTE guys took the flag? Could I have had the driver pass as soon as the green dropped regardless of the double yellows being shown locally? Should it have even been restarted with safety crews still on track and in between competitors?

 

Thanks for the help in understanding the situation.

 

[Rob Burgoon]

You go green when the yellow flags come down.  If you pass with dual yellow flags still visible, I think you'll lose that one.  Looks like the field failed to fully bunch up which sucks.

[Johnny D]

BDing here is good too. "F***ing GO!!!"  (catch up)

J~

[Jamz14]

ok, Fing go and Bding it is then.

[Johnny D]

I didn't see the video but you get newer racers not knowing to catch up.

1 Get better so your not back there.

2. Get somebody on the radio to tell you when it's green and leave them in the dust.

3. time your run on them when you think the green is coming out and pass right away.

4. what I said ^^, but if everyone or the one up front in a pack is stuck on stupid, your hosed.

J~

[Randy Thieme]

Here's what happens between the starter, race control, and the corners at green flag time.

 

1) Starter waves green
2) Race control announces over the radio to the corners: "We have a race. Drop your yellows" or something to that effect.
3) The corner-worker with the radio headset announces to the other workers at their corner "green flag, green flag" or something to that effect.
4) The corner-worker holding the yellow flag pulls the flag.

 

As you can see, because there are a number of steps involved yellows do not get dropped instantly even in the best of circumstances.  Normally this doesn't create any issues.  But if the field is really big or strung out (or both) something like this could happen.

 

Whether or not it was OK to restart with workers still on course is debatable.  I would say no, and if I was race control I would have waited.  But it was their call.  Would not blame any driver or spotter for not expecting the restart at that time which must have added to the confusion.

 

Technically the driver could not pass.  In the case of your video the driver was no where near start/finish and (emphasis) had corner-stations in front of him still showing yellow.  Just an unfortunate situation. 

 

P. S.  If I was working that race, thought I saw a pass under yellow, then realized the driver did not initiate the pass until the moment after the green flag was shown and I was just lazy and slow getting my yellows pulled, in that case I would not have called in the driver. 

[Jamz14]

Thanks Randy.

[Ron Alan]

I didn't see the video but you get newer racers not knowing to catch up.

1 Get better so your not back there.

2. Get somebody on the radio to tell you when it's green and leave them in the dust.

3. time your run on them when you think the green is coming out and pass right away.

4. what I said ^^, but if everyone or the one up front in a pack is stuck on stupid, your hosed.

J~

Maybe you should watch the video so you dont look like a donkey with your response

 

James...not sure if you guys run mixed classes in so-cal but nor-cal always runs with the E30s. Since SM typicaly starts 2nd, it is normal for the lead SM driver to not run up to the pack behind the pace car(in your case that weekend it was PTE). This way when the green comes out there is a gap and for the most part there is no mixed class racing. Based on your video this was a weird situatuion with the safety trucks still on track. You should have called the green(if you didnt)and left it up to your driver to make sure the flags were down at the next station if he couldnt see them yet. He may not have been able to pass but at least he would have been on the bumper of the car in front.

 

Whoever was leading the SM group(Charlie?)was on the radio and knew it was about to go green...i'm sure he took off through the corkscrew and was at full speed when the green was called and never looked back!

[Johnny D]

The video was blocked at work so I couldn't see it. So maybe I shouldn't of commented.

But looking at the video I don't think my comments are that far off.

It's not "weird" to have the safety truck out on track going green or during a race for NASA.

Sometime they will throw a local yellow and roll the trucks.

 

So like I said, everyone should of been caught up because trucks on track doesn't mean they're not going green.

But yes you have to wait and not pass under yellow.

J~

[Zauskycop]

Ok, to me as both a corner worker, and a racer...that is a severely messed up start.   I would have NEVER expected that track to go green and I would be having a talk with a steward on that one..

[Johnny D]

So here's the rules. See the flags around 77 / 113 or 64 on the bottom of the page

http://www.nasaprora...m/rules/ccr.pdf

 

If we could see more of the video maybe the stations may show us something. FCY, to local ?

I would guess this is the safety crew that works the 25hr race and used to "hot tows"

With 5 or 6 yellow laps was enough, did you want to race or do laps under yellow?

 

See the parts that says "green track" time.

 

19.3.16 Emergency Scene

Categories: Command, Local

Description: A motionless white flag with a red cross accompanied by a waving yellow flag; that can be

displayed from any manned flag station around the course.

 

Uses: When encountered on course, drivers shall slow their vehicles to an extreme measure, being prepared to

stop; and maintain such caution until past the emergency area. This combination of flags could be deemed the

most important signal in terms of the safety of the Emergency Response Team (ERT) members that have their

feet on the ground, assisting a fellow driver. This signal condition should be most highly respected; it is what

makes it possible for NASA to maximize "green track" time. It is also a command that the driver attempt to

acknowledge the ERT members on the ground, with a simple gesture, while passing by the scene. This

provides two-way communication, as well as a comfort level between those with the feet on the ground and

those with their feet on the pedals. Failure to adhere to any part of this section shall be met with most severe

penalties, including ejection from NASA.

[Keith Andrews]

Agree the cars were strung out.  That happens way too often.  Even when you think you are close, when you compound the lag of each driver in front of you the distance just gets larger and larger.

 

I was in an enduro this weekend that had double yellow laps.  I spent a lot of time waving my hands and talking on the radio (agitated) to wake people up and get them to catch up to the car in front of them.  Mixed class racing compounds the problem.  Many of the drivers consider a double yellow a break and stop thinking about the race.

[Jamz14]

Thanks Guys. I blew it by not calling the green. Caught me off guard too.

[Johnny D]

FYI, pretty sure after the start there's only one leader and no longer "groups"

So if the SM leader was holding everyone back, that just gave him a hugh run to the back of the PTE guys with no passing under yellow.

#2 mentioned above.

J~