140 replies to this topic

[pat slattery]

I have been advised that some of the latest and greatest 99 cars are now 40K.  Can someone please tell me how you can spend that much on a SM car.  Where the heck is 40K going assuming a 5K donor, that leave 35K to spend.  I don't see how you can spend it.  

[Mike Collins]

Some of the shops are getting more than that...a lot more.. and worth it.

[DrDomm]

... and worth it.

 

In all seriousness, could you give an opinion as to what about it is worth the cost?  $60K SM's...what makes them better than a $30K SM?

[Michael Colangelo]

Start with a clean 99 donor. Then strip it down to the bare tub and replace EVERYTHING with new parts/pro motor/pro tranny/pro dampers/pro wheel bearing grease!

[Rob Burgoon]

SWAGs at premium prices

 

6K donor

10K engine

2K cheater transmission

2K cheater diff

5K sexy cage

2K misc safety gear

10K labor ($100/hr * 100 hours)

2K paint/wrap

$2K control arms/subframes

$3K suspension

$2K wheels tires brakes

[Todd Tagget]

SWAGs at premium prices

 

6K donor

10K engine

2K cheater transmission

2K cheater diff

5K sexy cage

2K misc safety gear

10K labor ($100/hr * 100 hours)

2K paint/wrap

$2K control arms/subframes

$3K suspension

$2K wheels tires brakes

Damn Rob,, I should move down south,, cause you guys are smoking better stuff than we can get up here in N. Cal..:-)

[Mike Collins]

[Caveman-kwebb99]

SWAGs at premium prices

 

 

10K labor ($100/hr * 100 hours)

 

 

I think your shy on hours there rob...  I am building a TT car right now that there is 65 hours in labor already, we havent painted interior, or put font end back together, and we didnt take subframes off the car but evrything else has come off and everything including bushings is being replaced.  Or installed engine trans, dynoe tuned it etc etc etc. 

[Mike Collins]

200+ hours for a rotisserie build...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I will take a Drago built simplistic but tricked out 35k car anyday over one of those 40k+ cars, the car may not have all those sexy digital gauges and all the peacock feathers that Danny sports but they get the job done!  Hell Danny sits in a $4000.00 seat.

[Johnny D]

http://mazdaracers.c...-2012-sm-build/

 

http://mazdaracers.c...ional-champion/

 

I'd throw away the Mazda Service manual and get Drago's service manual and parts.

 

Then you need the nut behind the wheel, setup per track, adjustments for conditions, data, $, etc, etc.

J~

[LarryKing]

That's gotta sting a bit when you bend it.

 

PS: what recession?

[Jim Drago]

My car is advertised for over 40k now. Every part on that car was completely new or rebuilt before the Runoffs. Best of 3 engines, not a ding in the car and never "wrecked". It has won Two National championships, National points championship and two Runoffs poles. There is no car ever built that has a remotely similar pedigree. Why is it over 40k? Because it is worth it and one of the very few that has actually proved its' worth. Many people have to have a proven winners, if you really need to know, this will answer the question. You could buy the same car from me new for about $35000 or so depending on what you wanted in it and it would perform just as well, but with no history. I know guys in NE are over 50k now. Labors rates are higher up there and the amount of time that goes into winning cars is off the charts, we easily have 200 plus hours in every car we build as I am sure most others do as well. We can't charge our normal labor rate or we would never sell a car:(.

[Rob Burgoon]

Damn Rob,, I should move down south,, cause you guys are smoking better stuff than we can get up here in N. Cal..:-)

 

 

I left out data and can bus gauges too.

[Mike Collins]

PS... Yes it would cost the same or more to build a 1.6 to this kind of standard.

[svvs]

Back in the day, in SM you used to be able to win with a $10K car.

 

Why?

 

Most people were building their own car.

No one was spending as much on cages and safety equipment as they are now ($200 kirkey seats vs $1400 racetech seats)

Not many people had data.

Not many people had custom paint jobs and vinyl packages.....if they did again they did it themselves

no one was replacing control arms and such

It was literally over 10 years ago that the first SM's came out (mine is from 2001).  Guess what.......using standard 3% inflation that's a 43% increase in prices of "stuff".

no one was using a $900 ish rebuilt transmission.....everyone was using whatever was in the car.

Pro motors used to cost what.....$5K  Now a super duper '99 pro motor is around $6K-$8K I think.  Heck, when I had to replace my 1.6L motor it was a $2700 crate, which later got a $1500ish head on it (I forget in all honesty), plus someone else's labor to install because I don't know how to do that.

 

I wish I had a link to the "pros vs schmoes" article to see what the team saferacer/Saini car cost. 

 

So yah....prices have been going up.  So have "prep" levels in terms of guys paying attention to their bearings and their setups.

 

Fact of the matter is if you wanted to buy a $10K car, drop somewhere around $3K-$5K into it.....you'd be in the thick of it.

 

Yiannis up here in the NE.....once upon a time he bought or Jerry R bought a 1.6L car for some stupid cheap number.  I'm not sure how much work went into it....but I know it has done a sub 2:19 lap at WGI (granted it was the fall and cool, but you know what I mean).  Yiannis is also a very good driver on Toyos with no grip.  Still....sub 2:19 at WGI in a second hand 1.6L car.  John Kuitwaard went 2:19.5 last weekend in a Flatout '94 rental car he had never driven before.

 

Like all sports where there is equipment involved....if you want "no excuses", you need to pay to have the "best" equipment.  You can pay more to have the prettiest best equipment if you want.  No excuses means best pro motor, tranny that won't break on you, and suspension components that allow you to put whatever setup your heart desires on the car.  That's going to cost money.....especially if it's someone elses labor going into the car.

 

Just my two cents.  I MIGHT finish higher in SM if I spent the money on a no excuses car....but I'm pretty happy with my 1.6L car with a Kessler head and a data system that allows me to learn from it.  I know my race craft can use some work, I'm not the most aggressive driver out there, and there are times when I still lose concentration and dont' get the best lap that I can get.  I also know pro drivers are about 0.5-1.0 second faster than I am in my car, give or take.  I'm still having fun and solidly "upper mid pack".

 

-Vick

[davew]

Real quick numbers:

 

Donor with top    5k

basic SM in a box like I sell     5k

labor        10k and thats only 111 hours at my labor. Probably would spend 150+ on the build.

motor and accessories     7k

trans/clutch      2k

data   5k

 

Right there is 34k with no tires, wheels, paint, graphix, or unexpected repiar parts.

 

Add in some upgrades like seats, seat belts, steering wheel, radios, cool suits, dyno time, etc and it is easily at 40k.

 

But any of us (me, Jim, Tom, Nick, Mike, etc.) can build that car knowing it will be fast out of the box. Tom Browns car was built in the 2 weeks before the Runoffs and qualified 9th. Ran top 10 untill taken out in the kink. Then ran STL with Lamb (also a new build) and Randy Pobst (in a top 6 SM car). It is that results, knowledge and experience that justifies that kind of price tag.

 

I wish a $9500 build was still what the competitors want.

 

Dave

[Mitch Reading]

All about what the customer wants, as echo'd above.  You want all the fancy bells and whistles... and don't turn a wrench yourself... it'll cost you.  You can run a seat that is $500 or one that is $5000....

 

Its all relative.  You can do it for a whole lot less, or you can go run a (insert favorite sports car here) for a whole lot more. 

[Jim Drago]

It is that results, knowledge and experience that justifies that kind of price tag.
 

Dave

Actually the letters "SM" is what keeps prices of what would be a 75k plus build in most other classes or certainly grandam under 50K IMO. I have seen MANY SM cars built by all Dave mentioned above that put the build quality of many grandam cars to shame. Losing 3 HP in 99% of all classes is meaningless, losing 3HP IN SM puts you out of contention any Majors race.

[Adax]

Check out my build blog (link in sig) and you can see where $40K goes pretty fast. I won't have quite that much in it but only because I'm not paying myself for labor (I did everything but motor and paint). There are many placed to drop serious coin and when you spend $700 each race weekend in tires alone, an additional $500 here and there to make the build a bit nicer seems easy to justify.

 

AC