32 replies to this topic

[dmathias]

Not the kind of statistics anyone wants to see, but a useful database none the less.

http://www.thatsraci...pe=&CPIorderBy=

[Lance Snyder]

Not the kind of statistics anyone wants to see, but a useful database none the less.

http://www.thatsraci...pe=&CPIorderBy=

I'd be curious as to how many actually died from a racing accident versus medical condition.

[dmathias]

If you click on the name a brief description of the incident is linked.

[Lance Snyder]

I was more talking about the number that is being spat out in the preface.

[Qik Nip]

Didn't have time to get past page three, but the incidence of dirt track and drag racer deaths is pretty remarkable.

I have some opinions (probably not surprising to those who know me).

First, drag race cars are often ill suited for driving in anything that is not an absolute striaght line. When they get out of hand, it get really ugly really fast. The dirt track boys tend to be out of shape and the safety equipmemt really often pretty inadequate. At the dirt track near me, last summer (to the best of my seeing), I observed not one driver with a H&N restraint in any race run that night.

I read several years ago that road racing has a death per mile statistic that is roughly equivilent to that of the US highways circa 1971.
Rick

[Keith Novak]

I started going through them and very few are road racing. The vast majority are short oval racing. When you see the way those guys drive, and that their safety equipment is hit and miss at best it's not that suprising.

[davecarama]

Interesting... Only 2 at Summit Point and ZERO at VIR on this list.

I'm going to go work on my car now... (shiver) Need to be sure I stay safe...

[Tom Hampton]

I'm actually finding the data frustrating. The details of each death are sketchy at best. I'm not sure how to learn from this data. Example:

Adam Schatz, 26, died from injuries suffered in a karting accident when his car crashed into a wall during the Road America Super Nationals, Championship Enduro Series on July 12 at Road America in Wisconsin. He suffered brain stem and spinal cord injuries and died a week later on July 19.

Supposition? No head and neck restraint. but, that's really just a guess. Many of the others are even more mysterious:

Trash died after his Mazda RX-7 left the track, entered the gravel trap and ending up against the tire wall in the Chicago Region June Sprints at Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

<P dir=ltr>Can't tell anything about this one, at all. So, I wouldn't know what else to do besides:

• Strong welded cage
• Halo Seat
• 6+ point harness
• head and neck restraint
• fire system
• cutoff switch
• Practice, practice, practice, practice: various escapes (drivers/passengers side, doors stuck/not, upside down?, steering wheel stuck, etc) in full gear

I did count 56 deaths on road courses from 1990 onwards: 2.5 / year. I don't know how many driver miles (laps?) / death that works out to. But, I think I'll take those odds over driving to and from the track.

[dstevens]

There are more deaths in drags and short track because there are far more people racing them than club road racing. All the upper division local/regional races require modern safety gear. And they tech the cars. No getting an annual and turning in a card at the race. There are some outlaw races that can be dicey but overall racing with either NASCAR, ASA or IMCA at the local level is every bit as safe as racing with SCCA and NASA.

For example in the SW, AZ So Cal So Nev there will be around 1000 circle track entrants every couple of weeks at the various tracks compared to a few hundred each for the couple of club races during that same period. Get back to the dirt tracks of the mid west and circle tracks in the south and there are a magnitude greater entrants, racing every week for 15-20 weeks. Just at The Strip (LVMS dragstrip) there are over 500 entrants for the couple of nights of local bracket/ street test and tune drags. I bet similar numbers for drag strips that allow that kind of racings. And it keeps the kids off the street.

The fatalities average not quite 24 a year, including spectators. Contrast this to hunting accidents that kill about 100 a year. Racing is dangerous, it can kill. Respect the danger and be prepared and the chances are still better that you'll get killed in a street car crash.

[Lance Snyder]

I wander what the stats would look like if they tracked those that die while watching TV, or BBQing and blame it on TV or BBQing.

[Tom Hampton]

Looking at SCCA data alone, taking 2007 as an example: there were 10010 entrants across all national races, in all classes, in club racing. Approximating each entrant racing 30 miles, that would be 300,000 racer-miles per year. That doesn't include practice, or qualifying miles. It doesn't include any NASA or any other race organization, and it doesn't include any other SCCA groups other than club racing (not pro, rally or solo).

Even with all those caveats...that would be 0.83 deaths for every 100,000 miles raced. I couldn't quickly find NASA stats for 2007...nor could I easily find data for the road racing world as a whole (or how much of it is made up by SCCA club). I'd have a hard time believing that SCCA club racing makes up even 1/2 of all road racing.

That means that the number of deaths would be well less than 0.42 / 100,000 race miles (based on the assumption that SCCA club racing National makes up 1/2 of the total race miles annually.

For comparison: http://www.theautoin...ies-in-america/#

Just visually, it looks like the average is around 1.5 fatalities per 100,000 miles. That would mean that road-racing is no less than 3x safer (statistically) than driving on the street.

One way to look at it.

[Scottie]

Interesting... Only 2 at Summit Point and ZERO at VIR on this list.

Actually, I believe there are 4 at SP. The 2 that say Charlestown are still SP. Charlestown is right next to the track.

Then again, to me, north is up. Like, over my head.

[seege]

[quote name='dstevens' timestamp='1298061833' post='2691']
There are more deaths in drags and short track because there are far more people racing them than club road racing. All the upper division local/regional races require modern safety gear. And they tech the cars. No getting an annual and turning in a card at the race. There are some outlaw races that can be dicey but overall racing with either NASCAR, ASA or IMCA at the local level is every bit as safe as racing with SCCA and NASA.

For example in the SW, AZ So Cal So Nev there will be around 1000 circle track entrants every couple of weeks at the various tracks compared to a few hundred each for the couple of club races during that same period. Get back to the dirt tracks of the mid west and circle tracks in the south and there are a magnitude greater entrants, racing every week for 15-20 weeks. Just at The Strip (LVMS dragstrip) there are over 500 entrants for the couple of nights of local bracket/ street test and tune drags. I bet similar numbers for drag strips that allow that kind of racings. And it keeps the kids off the street....




There are many more clubs than just SCCA and NASA. Scores of groups in this area are running DE events. Road Race courses are often booked for private rentals. I would be careful saying one any one of the specified groups has much more usage than the rest, without knowing all the participation numbers as fact.

[dstevens]

There are many more clubs than just SCCA and NASA. Scores of groups in this area are running DE events. Road Race courses are often booked for private rentals. I would be careful saying one any one of the specified groups has much more usage than the rest, without knowing all the participation numbers as fact.

Again, with all due respect to DE folks, DE is not racing. I suppose one could argue that bracket drags aren't racing because like many in DE or TT (or even solo) it's against the clock and not so much another car.

I know, for a fact, there are more people wheel to wheel racing circle track and drags than club road race. There are more participants, racing more often. And many of them aren't nearly as healthy as many of you are. While not rampant, it's not uncommon for a driver to have a cardiac episode during or after a race.

[wheel]

More people probably died spanking their monkey than died in road racing last year.

wheel

[dstevens]

Awesome wheel... LOL

[Keith Novak]

I'm sure most sanctioning bodies follow pretty much the same safety rules. I can't help thinking that some of the others that allow people to be downright dangerous account for some higher numbers. There was some TV show last season with short track racers beating the hell out of each other and I was amazed to see that some drivers didn't even wear gloves let alone HNR devices, and make a point to crash one another. Watch Pinks a few times and you're bound to see many people with minimal safety gear, dubious car prep, and questionable skill.

I only made it through the 1st 4 pages at lunch before I clicked the wrong button and closed the window but noticed that the numbers were stacked against open cars or Karts, and DE or private track events.

[Niklas Falk]

Its tough to have to defend your activities every time someone gets hold of stats and start waiving them in your face.

Safety for karts and bikes can't be solved with cages, halo seats, HNRS etc. Track design can help but how do you prevent a competitor from ramming into you helmet when you fall off (it's a risk that can only be mediated by not racing at all)?

Racing (of any type) is safer than owning a gun, even in my part of the world (hunting included).
We will all die sometime, why not go out doing what we love (last death I was close to was a AppK 2stroke SAAB freak that got his third heart attack in Parc Fermé after second place in the race).

The sad thing is the insurance bean-counters that start yelling like mad as soon as they can add some stats that might motivate/enable them to raise the premiums...

[Bruce Wilson]

More people probably died spanking their monkey than died in road racing last year.

wheel

Which is okay, because they went out doing what they loved!

-bw

[pitbull113]

The sad thing is the insurance bean-counters that start yelling like mad as soon as they can add some stats that might motivate/enable them to raise the premiums...

true. unfortunately why the scca is forcing us to use an h&nr next year. complete bs