21 replies to this topic

[HLF]

When I first posted about this issue it was a little bit of smoke and I pulled the head, took pics and most people said get a new motor with less than 75k miles. 

 

Well I'm a rebel I guess. Scroggins is a local head shop and they said they could rebuild the head for $300 and the cheapest motors I found were $900 plus shipping. So I had the head rebuilt to try to save a buck. 

 

The motor is now pouring smoke out of the tail pipe. Much worse than before. I will not stay running without my hitting the gas pedal a bit.

 

When I pulled the head the timing was very off (my guess is they kept changing it to keep it running). I set the timing according to the shop manual  (TDC #1). 

 

I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to salvage this or if there is something that is easy to get wrong during the rebuild?

 

 

 

I found a JDM motor on ebay but I am not sure if it will work in my '97? If so, is this a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/...34976e&vxp=mtr 

 

 

[James York]

JDM motors are not legal for SM.

 

As far as repairing your existing, I will let the engine experts chime in.  Was the head the only thing they "worked" on?

[HLF]

Yes. I did the re-install. 

[Jim Drago]

HLF

Cut your losses now. You had lots of good advice the first time and you went rogue on us and look where you are now, you saved a few bucks and still have the exact same issue and a lot more work to do. My suggestion again is to buy a used engine from a reputable person who will car fax mileage and warranty what you buy. Yes it will likely be 300 more than a barain on EBAY, but when you have an issue, you have some recourse and you know what you are buying

Jim

[Ron Alan]

When I had my head redone on a 60k(original bottom end)motor I was told it will smoke...and it does! But mostly only at start up and it makes good power and uses what I would consider a normal. I don't remember your original thread put I imagine your rings have long stopped doing their job. As cheap as your machine shop did your head...take your block back and have them clean it up and replace the wear parts! Your half way there...might as well go all the way!

[Jim Boemler]

I didn't see your original description, but it seems at least possible that the problem was never in the engine itself.  Perhaps the thing is just running pig-rich?

[James York]

When I had my head redone on a 60k(original bottom end)motor I was told it will smoke...and it does! But mostly only at start up and it makes good power and uses what I would consider a normal. I don't remember your original thread put I imagine your rings have long stopped doing their job. As cheap as your machine shop did your head...take your block back and have them clean it up and replace the wear parts! Your half way there...might as well go all the way!

That is a bunch of baloney.  If your motor didn't smoke before you had your head done, it surely shouldn't after.  

[James York]

HLF,

 

I would take Jim's advice.  Get a known good used engine and take this as a learning.

 

Have you done any diagnosis on the engine (I assume you are saying oil smoke) to locate the issue?

[davew]

Rebel;

 

On this forum you have some of the most knowledgeable people on Miatas in general, and Spec Miatas in particular. You asked for our advise, chose to ignore it and now are asking again. Having been on the forum since the original racersnetwork days (yes in the last century), I will tell you that is not a way to make friends. Strike one!

 

Strike 2, understand the rules. JDM parts are not legal in Spec Miata.

 

Do not strike out. Understand racing costs more money than we want to admit. Never add up your receipts. Understand that you have a race car, and you should be dealing with race car suppliers (engine shops). Understand that the experts are the experts because we already made the mistakes that the non-expert will continue to make. Learn from our mistakes rather than yours. Understand that doing it right the first time is usually cheaper than doing it wrong twice! Understand that the people who answer questions like this (Drago, York, Meathead and even Dewhurst) really do have the best intentions. Listen and learn.

 

I am sure there are several suppliers who are regulars on this forum, who can supply you with a good used engine at a fair price. Names like East Street, Planet Miata, and Panic Motorsports all come to mind.

 

Dave

[HLF]

Hindsight, I wish I would have found a new motor but I was willing to spend $300 to get a fresh head that MIGHT work and if it didn't I'm sure I could find a use for that head somewhere down the line. 

 

The smoke is definitely from oil. I just don't understand how it could get so much worse after the new head. It is literally 10x worse than before!!!

 

Im not looking for a "race" motor. I am just looking for something that will get me through HPDE for the time being.

[Aaron Pettipas]

The smoke is definitely from oil. I just don't understand how it could get so much worse after the new head. It is literally 10x worse than before!!!

Bad/wrong valve stem oil seals?

[Ron Alan]

That is a bunch of baloney. If your motor didn't smoke before you had your head done, it surely shouldn't after.

Well, without getting in a pissing match...pretty sure my information is good. And in my case it was absolutely accurate. As I understand, when the head tightens up(no leaks), the old rings are the week link. As the compression finds its way past the rings it creates crankcase pressure wanting to push oil out somewhere. Oil can be forced into the intake via a couple different tubes as one way of oil finding its way back into the combustion chamber. As mentioned above, valve stem seals may not have been replaced and the added crankcase pressure is forcing more oil past the seals.

[Jim Boemler]

If that's the case, Ron, lifting the oil filler cap while running should make it obvious.

[James York]

Well, without getting in a pissing match...pretty sure my information is good. And in my case it was absolutely accurate. As I understand, when the head tightens up(no leaks), the old rings are the week link. As the compression finds its way past the rings it creates crankcase pressure wanting to push oil out somewhere. Oil can be forced into the intake via a couple different tubes as one way of oil finding its way back into the combustion chamber. As mentioned above, valve stem seals may not have been replaced and the added crankcase pressure is forcing more oil past the seals.

No pissing match.  I think it's hooey, but if you think it's ok, it really doesn't make me any difference.  I think you would blow the PCV valve out its grommet with the "blowby" you are describing as happening, but to each his own...  Happy racing.

[Bench Racer]

Kyle, knowing the root cause of an issue (tail pipe smoke) is a good thing. It was suggested by others in one of your threads that the motor was tired, specifically the rings. How many miles on the motor? (Johnny D busted my balls gently, 160,000 miles) I didn't see in your orginal thread anything mentioned that there had been a compression or leakdown test completed. When the head was off, did you check for piston ring ridges in the cylinder walls or measure the cylinder walls? Being that the motor is now in the car and running, either get someone knowledgeable or take the car to a knowledgeable engine person and find the root cause of your tail pipe smoke. Guys, if the issue is a ring job and the block appears ok, what's a top end (block totally striped/washed) vs frugal bottom end (crank and rods out/de-ridge/hone) ring job cost?

 

Well damn.....
If its just the rings I can do that over a weekend. I have rebuilt a few Fords V8s in the past. I have never encountered a motor said the be "wore out" so what else could be involved?
 
I have the tools, I have the know-how, I can find the time, but I cannot budget 3k for a motor.
 
Anyone have any frugal ideas?
 -Kyle

IIRC your a student with and I understand a minimal budget?

David

 

Thanks Johnny D 

 

 

[Johnny D]

 How many miles on the motor?
David

 

160K

 

http://mazdaracers.c...ge-1#entry54213

 

J~

[HLF]

Yes I am in dental school, but I took the scenic route to get there.

I did not do anything to the block with the head off. Originally I thought the walls looked shiny but after getting better light I could see crosses scoring. No gouges or irregular scores in te cylinders either. Not sure what you mean by "piston ring ridges"? There was no "lip" at the tops of the cylinders except some carbon build up thy came off with a razor blade.

I'm going to give Gas Head Motorworks a call tomorrow and see if they will take a look at the motor for me.

Spending an additional $1,000 on just the motor when I said I bought a good running car will have a large negative impact on my domestic tranquility. I'm just happy I own my own helmet now.

[Johnny D]

Hey, this guy has the same problem you do.  

 

http://houston.craig...4284194203.html

 

J~

[dstevens]

Guys, if the issue is a ring job and the block appears ok, what's a top end (block totally striped/washed) vs frugal bottom end (crank and rods out/de-ridge/hone) ring job cost?

 

 

A few years back when I did a 1.6 it was about $375 using some MSM parts, tank, square the deck and hone.  I used the Kia lash adjusters which share the same part number otherwise it would have been more than that (with the MSM discount) for the lifters  I mean HLAs   .  Full MSM short block rebuild with machining at the local race shop was around a grand.  With NAPA/OEM style parts it's quite a bit less, about half and the numbers on most of the parts are the same as the MSM parts.  It's the MSM parts that cost the most.

 

That's a 97?  Is it even old enough to smoke?...

[Glenn Davis]

Hey, this guy has the same problem you do.  

 

http://houston.craig...4284194203.html

 

J~

Bwahahahaha!