48 replies to this topic

[Tom M]

Newbie here, This site has help me tremendously as resource, It's like " Spec MIata University" to me. Thanks to all that make it happen.
I have one year under my belt racing miata's with rented rides and loved it so much that I took the plunge and bought a used 1.6 car at the end of the year. I was able to get in one weekend of HDPE with it before the end of year. The car came with hawk blues and was impressed with the braking. The fronts are now worn to a point of replacement. The rears are about half way worn. I have heard that they been the staple for spec Miata's and now wondering what other brake pad options do I have for a driver who tends to brake late. My intent is to replace the pads rotors and calibers to get the car ready for upcoming season. Any other suggestions on how to properly freshen up the brake system would be appreciated.

[Todd Lamb]

Hawk, Cobalt, and Carbotech are the most used options on SM. I prefer the Hawk DTC 60 / DTC 30 combo, but have tried them all. All will stop the car, it's just a matter of driver preference for the feel. If you like the Hawk Blues, you'll like the Hawk DTC setup as well - a little less initial bite but better release for trailbraking.

[Tom M]

Hey Todd, thanks for the quick response. As far as the calipers go, do you rebuild them or repale them?

[svvs]

Tom:

 

I run Carbotech XP10's on the front of my car, and XP8's on the rear.  Really good modulation, and easy on rotors (not that rotors are expensive).  I get them pre-bedded direct from Carbotech to take one less thing out of the equation if I need to swap pads out real fast at the track.  Usually shipped from the factory in two days or less.

 

As for calipers, I got a set of rebuilds/adjuster deletes from Drago.  They've been good for a few years, but now I need to replace the dust boots.  I keep a spare set of calipers in the trailer which are just the old take offs as a "just in case".  I'll probably try to rebuild them in the next couple of weeks.

 

i'm here in New york.  Hope to see you at some of our "local" tracks!

 

-Vick

[LarryKing]

If your calipers are not leaking I would leave them alone. There is a good chance that they are better than any replacement you might buy. Don't fix something that ain't broke.

 

To the best of my knowledge you cannot buy a new caliper. Even the ones MazdaSpeed sells are rebuilds, and there is a wide range of rebuild quality. Flush and bleed the system with new fluid, replace worn brake hardware, and properly lube the parts that should be lubed.

 

I had a bad habit of locking the rear brakes when I used Hawk blues so I switched to Carbotects. Others I know love Hawks.

 

As Vick mentioned above, if you still have the parking brake adjusters on the rear get rid of them. Search this site for how-to, or use a vendor. I like Speedwell's Garage and Golf Shop.

[Alberto]

If your calipers are not leaking I would leave them alone. There is a good chance that they are better than any replacement you might buy. Don't fix something that ain't broke.

 

To the best of my knowledge you cannot buy a new caliper. Even the ones MazdaSpeed sells are rebuilds, and there is a wide range of rebuild quality. Flush and bleed the system with new fluid, replace worn brake hardware, and properly lube the parts that should be lubed.

 

I had a bad habit of locking the rear brakes when I used Hawk blues so I switched to Carbotects. Others I know love Hawks.

 

As Vick mentioned above, if you still have the parking brake adjusters on the rear get rid of them. Search this site for how-to, or use a vendor. I like Speedwell's Garage and Golf Shop.

 

 

RG, why get rid of the adjusters?  I kept mine.  The parking brake is very useful for me. 

[LarryKing]

The parking brake can self-adjust while on track, effectively reducing RWHP. Plus the cable mechanism probably weighs 5+ pounds.

 

I'm actually very curious - what use do you have for the parking brake?

[Sphinx]

The parking brake can self-adjust while on track, effectively reducing RWHP. Plus the cable mechanism probably weighs 5+ pounds.

 

I'm actually very curious - what use do you have for the parking brake?

 

Or it can seize causing your axle bearing cage to self-destruct in the middle of a 3 hr enduro.  Ask me how I know.....

 

I will say, however, that having a working parking brake is useful when i'm trying to warm up my car on an incline (say at my house).  otherwise, I have to creatively place a chock.

[AJ Roderick]

The parking brake can self-adjust while on track, effectively reducing RWHP. Plus the cable mechanism probably weighs 5+ pounds.

 

I'm actually very curious - what use do you have for the parking brake?

For parking lol

[Jim Drago]

Hey Todd, thanks for the quick response. As far as the calipers go, do you rebuild them or repale them?

You can rebuild or buy rebuilts,few do a god job on them. I am biased on whos are the best. But someone who does a rebuild by the book can do a good job will have no issues. But they absolutely need to be gone through, they almost all stick real bad in race application from years of grime. If you choose to buy rather than rebuild your own, you can check the Mazdaracers store as well. We sell a lot of them.

[Alberto]

The parking brake can self-adjust while on track, effectively reducing RWHP. Plus the cable mechanism probably weighs 5+ pounds.

 

I'm actually very curious - what use do you have for the parking brake?

 

on the trailer, getting onto the trailer

oh, parking also

some say it's good for that drifting thing also.  oh wait, wrong forum.

 

i don't really buy the weight argument since most people i know need to add ballast to make weight but YMMV of course.

 

 

After my experience with parts store calipers, I would sooner rebuild them myself sourcing parts from Mazda Motorsports (search on past threads on the topic) or buy from East Street.  Here is what the walls of the caliper piston looked like on the caliper I bought from O'Riely or NAPA (I forget...).  Note the really rough, pitted sides of the piston.  The calipers I sourced from Mazda Motorsports back in 2010 all had smooth pistons.  They came from 3 different locations.  They told me I bought the last 2 new calipers. 

[davew]

I would not automaticly discard that caliper. The pic above shows the external surface of the rear piston. If you take it apart you will find the actual sealing surface to be larger in diameter and probably in perfect shape. 

 

I remove the parking brake lever, cables, etc. but I leave the adjusters in the calipers. BUT I adjust the brakes every day. I had a set of calipers with the adjusters removed (not Drago's) and did not like the way the brakes felt. Replaced the rear calipers with stock adjusters and they felt fine. Just my opinion.

 

You will never go fast if you don't trust your brakes.

 

Dave

[LarryKing]

All y'all who like your parking brake - please feel free to keep it. Your competitors thank you.

 

 

 I had a set of calipers with the adjusters removed (not Drago's) and did not like the way the brakes felt.

 

How did they feel different? I noticed no difference in "feel" when I had my adjusters removed.

[Bench Racer]

Attached are two sources relative to the rear caliper/"adjuster" removal. One http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O8KmC4_fgpU shows the disassembly/assembly of a rear caliper and the other http://www.miata.net/garage/ebrake/  shows all the parts of a rear caliper. Within the second source Fig. "M" shows the adjuster that folks remove . A puller of some sort is required to pull the adjuster out of the piston. The route I took to eliminate pulling the adjustor was to cut off the threads off the screw adjuster which is the first piece to the left of the snap-ring in Fig. "H". Legal, ??? Removing the parking brake pieces is legal, I removed part of a piece because it's a simpler route.

The rear adjuster can no longer funcition and push the piston/pad tighter to your brake rotor.

You now have the same working parts in your rear caliper that you have in your front caliper.

Learned from Saul the golfer.  

[Jamz14]

I am a Carbotech fan because they perform well and are very easy on rotors. Ive used hawks and loved them, but they tear through the rotors with their wonderful stopping power. Yes rotors are cheap, but a dollar I spend on rotors is a dollar I am not spending on tires.

 

As far as buying prebedded pads like Victor suggest. I am not a fan of pre bedded pads. My understanding and limited experience is that bedding the pads is less about the pad and more about the rotor. My understanding is that you want a nice even layer of pad material laid down on the rotor. This even layer of material keeps the rotors heated evenly and prevents warping of them. My experience jives with this as I never used to bed pads on my road cars and would constantly warp the rotors. After I started doing it, I have never warped a rotor since on either my road cars or track car.

 

But then again, what do I know. I'm nuts.

[DrDomm]

All y'all who like your parking brake - please feel free to keep it. Your competitors thank you.

 

A comment like that implies the brake is gonna knock 2mph off your top speed at the end of each long straight.  When everyone is tapping the brakes without a second thought before the brake zone, I find it hard to believe its that important.  Does anyone have real data? 

 

I get it if you're gonna go all out with every other possible mod to increase HP and decrease drag, friction, and rotating mass.  But as a stand alone mod for the average mid-pack car?

[RussMcB]

<snip> ... BUT I adjust the brakes every day.

Interesting.  So, at the beginning or end of each day, you just screw it in (and maybe then back out a tiny bit to insure no drag)?

 

[LarryKing]

 

Does anyone have real data?

Anecdotal to be sure, however, many racers have spent $$$$ on performance parts based on much less.

 

From the Dwayne Hoover Institute of Fastnest:

 

Frontrunner prep secret now available to everyone for the first time.

 

Are your rear calipers sometimes tight when you come off the track?

Do you sometimes have inconsistent brake feel from corner to corner or from lap to lap ... that magically "fixes itself"?

Does your car take a couple corners or maybe a whole lap to feel right after a "divebomb"?

Do you ever wonder why your video sometimes makes your car seem faster, then slower, then faster again when comparing straightaway speed to another car?

Do your pads wear differently left rear versus right rear, even though you grease the bejeebers out of your pins and they feel free?

If you have not removed the parking brake mechanism that is INSIDE your rear brake caliper pistons, your brakes are OVERADJUSTING when you are on track. How often does this happen? It depends on the age of your calipers, how good they were from Mazda to begin with, what brake pads you use, and how hard you brake.

 

Again, if you are happy with having a parking brake then by all means keep it.

 

[Jim Drago]

When everyone is tapping the brakes without a second thought before the brake zone, I find it hard to believe its that important.  Does anyone have real data?

Domm,
We have seen cars on dyno heat up the rear rotor(s) pretty quickly that were supposed to be free. As for Brake tapping, we have been doing that before we ever pulled rear parking brake guts out. If you do it correctly, the brake lights come on but you never slow the car.

[James York]

A comment like that implies the brake is gonna knock 2mph off your top speed at the end of each long straight.  When everyone is tapping the brakes without a second thought before the brake zone, I find it hard to believe its that important.  Does anyone have real data? 

 

I get it if you're gonna go all out with every other possible mod to increase HP and decrease drag, friction, and rotating mass.  But as a stand alone mod for the average mid-pack car?

Domm,

 

Tapping the brake just shy of the brake zones would incur very little time penalty.  A dragging caliper, increasing the friction on the rear wheels (or any wheel for that matter) for the ENTIRE length of the straight is a HUGE (in SM terms) time loss.