92 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Just wondering what the general consensus is with majors compliance checks.
Let's see what you think. I have heard good and bad.
Jim

[Sean - MiataCage]

I have several thoughts on this topic.  First and foremost I believe that tech is about validating the winners/leaders etc, not necessarily about catching someone.  If people and things get caught in the process then so be it.

 

The Majors are supposed to be Elite level events.  The drivers are certainly holding up their end of the bargain, but we have all read about some of the compliance checks at some of the Majors this year.  It is my opinion that every Majors event must at a minimum tech the following:

 

- Weight - Top 3 plus 5 random after EVERY qualifying and race session.  Qualifying times are too close to not weigh after qualifying.

- Fuel - Top 3 plus 3 random.  As stated earlier this year the at track DC test will catch the guys running/blending E85.

- Whistler - Top 3 plus 2 random after Races only.  I think it would take too much time after qualifying and probably not necessary.

- Hoods and Trunks Open - All cars during any impound.

- Restrictor Plates - Top 3 plus 3 random after every qualifying and race.  We could seal the plate after the first inspection of a weekend with the seal stickers.

- Computers - Top 3 plus 3 Random.  At a minimum a visual inspection of the box for evidence of tampering.  Winners at the end of the weekend should have computers sent off to be checked.  At some point SCCA had some sealed Mazda units that I think should be being used to swap out with the winners/podium from Saturday.

 

It is important to check some random cars as well.  If it's only the podium then what incentive is there for cars further back to stay compliant?

 

I am sure with all of the people on this board we could come up with a list of items that require very little time and/or impact on the tech staff.  Tools can be made, money can be found if needed to come up with the necessary items to perform an efficient reasonable tech at these Majors events.

 

My 1.5 cents.....  Sean

[pat slattery]

I voted yes but would like to see a box for $10.00 for fees 

[Sean - MiataCage]

Or better yet, use the additional sanction fees already being paid.....

[James York]

I second everything Sean suggested.  We need more checks and checks on more people, not just podium.

[Jim Drago]

If we want more compliance than what is already provided.. Like our own compliance program, it would be at an additional cost. We can petition for more tech in general at the majors for all classes, but if we want our own program, there would be costs involved.

BTW, The tech we had at Sebring IMO ( all classes) was adequate. Not sure we could/should expect more than that less a protest or a specific program. I don't remember the specifics, but I know cars were weighed and whistled after qualifying and races. Some parts inspected, I honestly don't remember what else. I think they pulled manifolds or something after PBIR

[Johnny D]

Combo tech package/$ with SRF ?

 

Major Adequate Compliance

 

J~

[Sean - MiataCage]

Hi Jim, So... What exactly are we getting for the increase in fees?  How are these different from Nationals last year?  Can we not ask for a basic consistent amount of tech without having to pay more for it?  Glad to hear Sebring tech was acceptable.

 

Not trying to start Sh&% or throw anyone under the bus, just want to continue to improve upon these elite level events.

 

Thanks.... Sean

[Jim Drago]

That is probably a Butch question... But the purpose of the majors was to bunch competition. My description ( not the clubs) is that the Majors are what the Nationals USED to be. We developed way too many national races over the years and the competition became diluted. I think the majors have certainly increased competition in most cases. The podium ceremonies, live timing and scoring etc are all efforts to make the majors more elite of an event. I am sure we could do more and open to suggestions. Should there be a minimum level of tech at every major? Probably so. I think we exceeded "minimum" at our first two majors in the Eastern conference and sounds like perhaps they did not meet the expectations at the race on the west coast.

[Roger Caddell]

Somebody mentioned in Drago's Facebook post about this subject that the PCA Club Racing is testing electronic devices for tech compliance.  This is true.

 

I have been working with the PCA on creating a process to use AiM data loggers and then specialized data analysis tools to check for technical compliance. They debuted the system at Sebring last week and things went very well.  The officials and the racers were very happy after the very first weekend.

 

AiM Sports is also working with the CTCC (Canadian Touring Car Championship) where they also are using AiM data loggers for technical compliance. CTCC balances different makes and models of cars with RPM and Boost limits and with the data gathered and specialized data analysis tools, the officials can determine in just a couple of minutes any excessive levels.  Gearing is also checked. 

 

These were their current concerns, we are able to work with them on new processes when they decide they need to check other items.

[Johnny D]

I like the idea, I think NASA along those lines.

 

But doesn't that mean the rules will change to parameters and not measurements ?  (Digital and Analog)

Everyone cool with that ?

Or it's just a tech tool, for faster results of compliance ?

J~

[Bad Rusty]

I have several thoughts on this topic.  First and foremost I believe that tech is about validating the winners/leaders etc, not necessarily about catching someone.  If people and things get caught in the process then so be it.

 

The Majors are supposed to be Elite level events.  The drivers are certainly holding up their end of the bargain, but we have all read about some of the compliance checks at some of the Majors this year.  It is my opinion that every Majors event must at a minimum tech the following:

 

- Weight - Top 3 plus 5 random after EVERY qualifying and race session.  Qualifying times are too close to not weigh after qualifying.

- Fuel - Top 3 plus 3 random.  As stated earlier this year the at track DC test will catch the guys running/blending E85.

- Whistler - Top 3 plus 2 random after Races only.  I think it would take too much time after qualifying and probably not necessary.

- Hoods and Trunks Open - All cars during any impound.

- Restrictor Plates - Top 3 plus 3 random after every qualifying and race.  We could seal the plate after the first inspection of a weekend with the seal stickers.

- Computers - Top 3 plus 3 Random.  At a minimum a visual inspection of the box for evidence of tampering.  Winners at the end of the weekend should have computers sent off to be checked.  At some point SCCA had some sealed Mazda units that I think should be being used to swap out with the winners/podium from Saturday.

 

It is important to check some random cars as well.  If it's only the podium then what incentive is there for cars further back to stay compliant?

 

I am sure with all of the people on this board we could come up with a list of items that require very little time and/or impact on the tech staff.  Tools can be made, money can be found if needed to come up with the necessary items to perform an efficient reasonable tech at these Majors events.

 

My 1.5 cents.....  Sean

I really like all of these, but I am really concerned about the computer/ECU.  It is much much harder to check visually, and as we have seen/heard/suspected in the past, some people are exteremly creative in this process.  I'm sure there is a digital version to the "throw some flat black paint, a little dirt and grease on it, and no one will know that's a supe perfect unobtainium part on my car".

 

And in regards to the plate, some of us are such bad drivers we need to run STL as well, so I could not seal it up for the weekend.

 

I'm all for MORE checks!

[Sean - MiataCage]

Forgot about STL.... Good call.

 

I agree on the visual inspection for the computer but figured it was better than nothing.   I do prefer and recommend sending off the winners computer after the weekend for all the reasons you state above.  

[Kyle Keenan]

So Jim, you're basically saying a tech inspection like what Sean suggested is out of the question?

[Sean - MiataCage]

So Jim, you're basically saying a tech inspection like what Sean suggested is out of the question?

Hi Kyle..... I don't think that's what he said.  What I took from it was that we could ask for some basic tech to be completed at the Majors events, but that if we wanted to go deeper than some of what I outlined then we would need to setup a compliance fund and process to go deeper.  I don't want to speak for Jim, but I think he is out with personal stuff for the next several days.

 

E-mail and forums are hard to decipher tone and intent, so please understand that Jim is an ambassador for the class and will do and fight for what is right.  He is on our (SM) side.

 

Thanks... Sean

[Jim Drago]

So Jim, you're basically saying a tech inspection like what Sean suggested is out of the question?

In airport... Look to be spending the night in Chicago unless 6-7-8-9 on stand by list make it.

Basically what sean said

Under a general majors tech, I would say all that sean outlined would be a stretch, but not impossible, but very unlikely. That being said manifolds and such have been pulled at majors. It all depends on chief of tech at that event. If you asking for my opinion, the level tech that sean wants( I want) is very Unlikely to occur less a compliance program. We could certainly push for it, Jim creighton reads our board and has heard our complaints. He had stepped up the tech at the races he does tech.

I love the idea of the compliance program, it guarantees meaningful tech and don't nind paying an extra 25-45 a weekend to do so.
Jim

[Sean - MiataCage]

Hey Jim,

 

I thought I understood that there is a Majors tech person from the national staff that is supposed to work with each region prior to the events on what to tech and maybe even how the event should be run.  Am I mistaken on that?  If there is 1 person who oversees this, can we get them involved and help them with some things to look for and possibly get them to agree to at least put in place some basic mandatory tech items like weight, plate and fuel?  Hopefully a little more

 

Thanks... Sean

[Jim Drago]

I think that one person will probably chime in at done point, but he is probably busy at Nola

[Kyle Keenan]

I wasn't attacking or anything, just simply trying to make sure how I read it was how I was understanding it. Appreciate the clarification!

 

I'm a Drago fan and appreciate the hard work Jim's done for Spec Miata racing as a whole. Just want that to be clear

[FTodaro]

I would be concerned however about charging an extra 25.00 to 45.00 for tech. Regions are working hard to keep the cost of the weekend at bay. But that is not easy, when tracks raise the cost of rental 2,000.00 or more per year in some cases. So the cost cannot  be a deturant  to an already expensive weekend for some.