17 replies to this topic

[Jeff Wasilko]

Did other folks get asked to take a survey on AMB's new transponder? It seems like they're intending on making it available as a yearly subscription.

 

https://www.surveymo...get the invite.

[Glenn Davis]

I got the e-mail.  Not sure that I want to give them any more business than I need to given their track record.  The site conversion was a clusterflick.  Their record of customer service is dismal.  The fact that a global company is using Survey Monkey is very telling.

[True North]

I got the e-mail.  Not sure that I want to give them any more business than I need to given their track record.  The site conversion was a clusterflick.  Their record of customer service is dismal.  The fact that a global company is using Survey Monkey is very telling.

Yep....received it and deleted it.

[Brandon]

Judging from the last 12-18 months of 'performance' (yeah, in quotes) of the AMB company's services, I'd highly suggest removing from your deleted items the message and taking the survey.

 

If you're not pleased with their current level of service, continuing to stick your head in the sand won't help anyone in the long run.

I took their survey, read what they were suggesting (and judging from the pictures provided, they're further along than I feared - aka it's going to be worse in another 12-18 months) and replied with my opinion and feelings towards their product/service. **

 

Essentially it boils down to them changing the metrics of the negotiation/relationship between the parties.  There are three groups here: AMB, sanctioning bodies, & participants.

Who AMB thinks their customers are I think is entirely different from what we (participants) think they are.

 

And considering the fact all sanctioning bodies we might participate with require the AMB product, I'll leave it to you to figure out who AMB knows is their customer.

 

** For those who have not received this e-mail, they are essentially suggesting the alteration of the physical transponder to incorporate a two-piece design to divorce the transponder number away from the transmitter/receiver bits; there's a piece mounted to a track-loop-visible portion of the car and another piece (they "key") in the cockpit.  This means if everyone were to be on their "X2 product", you could move from car to car and have your transponder number be reflected in the laps timed with that particular vehicle.  (That's about the only 'benefit' to us as drivers I can think of when it comes to moving to this new product.)

 

What this "key" will also do is potentially limit whether you have access to their website to view/retrieve/download your times.  You've essentially purchased a dongle that can have a service associated with it and they (AMB) can charge you for access to the data captured with it.

 

It's all about continuing revenue for them since they seem to have noticed they can't continually jack up the price of a transponder.  When I first bought my car (2009) a transponder was under $400 (like $385 or something); now we're at $490.  And unless you only do DEs (which why would you need a transponder then?) we are all going to have to pay for it.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

** For those who have not received this e-mail, they are essentially suggesting the alteration of the physical transponder to incorporate a two-piece design to divorce the transponder number away from the transmitter/receiver bits; there's a piece mounted to a track-loop-visible portion of the car and another piece (they "key") in the cockpit.  This means if everyone were to be on their "X2 product", you could move from car to car and have your transponder number be reflected in the laps timed with that particular vehicle.  (That's about the only 'benefit' to us as drivers I can think of when it comes to moving to this new product.)

 

What this "key" will also do is potentially limit whether you have access to their website to view/retrieve/download your times.  You've essentially purchased a dongle that can have a service associated with it and they (AMB) can charge you for access to the data captured with it.

 

It's all about continuing revenue for them since they seem to have noticed they can't continually jack up the price of a transponder.  When I first bought my car (2009) a transponder was under $400 (like $385 or something); now we're at $490.  And unless you only do DEs (which why would you need a transponder then?) we are all going to have to pay for it.

 

A few notes here:

 

MyLaps demonstrated the new X2 system at PRI.  It is cloud-based and subscription-based.  The details of that are not known yet but the decoder boxes (which translate loop hits to transponder numbers for the software to read) push data to mylaps servers.  I believe it can still work offline, so if there is no connectivity you can connect to the decoder as you do today (as a T&S operator) but this cloud link will enable a variety of other services.  If your track has 20 loops (and 20 decoder boxes...) MyLaps also has some very sophisticated software that can provide auto-stewarding like warnings or even, if I understood it correctly, yellow flags when a car doesn't cross the next loop in the expected time frame.  It will be great for pro racing since 20 decoder boxes at today's prices would cost you I think about $70k.  And your tack needs to have a network plus 20 loops under the asphalt... so... it would work at COTA at least initially.

 

Now for a shameless plug... my company is launching a new live timing and race results app called RaceHero next week at MSX that helps you track, analyze and share your racing.  It provides entry lists, schedules, live timing and *official* race results on your phone, tablet or computer. You might ask your region to take a look at it while we're in Charlotte - it's stupid easy to run.  We provide complete results archives like MyLaps as one component of our service and we won't charge you to access them.

[dstevens]

The pricing isn't as big an issue as the support.  In my experience they are absolutely horrible.

[Brandon]

Brian,

Far be it for me to denigrate a product I've neither seen nor plan to purchase but AMB has not done themselves any favors to reinforce a positive image with participants.

From the botched website upgrade, which was our only mechanism to retrieve lap times, to the increase in pricing of the transponders themselves, they should be wary of attempting to radically alter how their customers actually use of their product.  And yes, in this case I'm referring to ourselves as the customers as we're the ones shelling out the money for the product, not the sanctioning bodies.

 

Support for the current services they offer is lackluster (at best) and predominantly biased towards it being 'user error'** when you do manage to receive a reply.

 

Somehow I can't bring myself to agree to giving more of my money to a group with the promise of receiving more/better/different results than what I currently get - granted, that's without any regular cost to myself currently.

 

If they are looking to provide a value-add to their current product line, radically overhauling the whole thing and expecting inertia and/or the monopolistic position to pull the product to acceptable sales numbers seems to me to be a fools errand.  I'd rather see them offer a line-level digital output that can be included into any of the DAQ products currently on the market.  

 

If they want to get into the "in-cockpit display of lap times" market then why not coordinate with those who already have captured that dash space and provide add-ons there?  I'd be more inclined to support that sort of a product than a wholesale R&R of my existing, perfectly good & operational transponder.

[Glenn Davis]

I'd really like to give an honest, thought out response to AMB.  However, my communication with them during the "upgrade" went unanswered.  I'm guessing they don't value the individual racer's opinion.

 

As an Electrical Engineer, I can tell you that the contents of their transponders are of minimal cost.  Their site is still a terrible example of a user friendly experience.  I can't believe that somebody hasn't easily cracked in to this market.  AMB is treating this like a global enterprise, with two digit expansion a year to justify their existence.  A Privateer could make a really decent living in this market by just charging a reasonable price for the transponder and having a website that is friendly.

 

I guess I just laid out a simple business plan for someone with more energy than me.

[RussMcB]

I took the survey.  Pretty frustrating (big surprise).  They don't start by telling you much about the new transponder and its features.  They ask questions that are pretty hard to answer.  How would I know how much I'll like flex subscriptions or a dash key if I don't know what they are or what they do?

 

After answering the questions best I could, and adding some sincere comments, I clicked Submit and got an error page...

[RazerX]

I will need to look for the email and look at the survey.  I am an ex (market, product management, R&D) out of the silicon valley and I now do market research for many of the high tech firms.  I am always curious to see if they(a racing oriented product company) are doing real research or just collecting info to support and manage expectations on the path they have already chosen.  

 

In a open market AMB could not and would not penalize those paying the bills for them being behind the times technically.  They would do that R&D on their own dime and then, as expressed here in this very thread, provide an upscale added value benefit and sell us on why it is better.  BTW, a company called RIM (Aka Blackberry) made this same mistake when the owned the mobile world.  

 

If the race organizations are not looking at alternative technology solutions (which is where we should also be lobbying as one the largest classes) then I would suspect a 'kickback' type of relationship may be happening.  Race organizations like to dictated for simplicity but they will listen to rational thought that keeps their business model in tact.  

[CruzanTom]

The survey is result-oriented. They are seeking validation of their X2 subscription system. They are looking to generate a stream-of-income from subscriptions rather than point-of-sale income at time of purchase. (The Race Monitor app was just "upgraded" to this model, you pay $2.99 a year). AMB is also looking at replacement sale income when people lose their X2 dongles. 

 

I did the survey and disagreed with their new subscription system and new transponder; however, I wonder what good my opinions will do when they have already announced the new system.

 

Get ready to write a check to AMB every year unless we switch to a different system.

[Brandon]

If the race organizations are not looking at alternative technology solutions (which is where we should also be lobbying as one the largest classes) then I would suspect a 'kickback' type of relationship may be happening.  Race organizations like to dictated for simplicity but they will listen to rational thought that keeps their business model in tact.  

 

Others can chime in if they feel like it, but having been on the BoT for our region and worked as "Asst. Race Chair" for an event, there is zero money coming "in" from anywhere other than members or other regions (cost-sharing agreements, series entry fees...)  No kickbacks from AMB were coming into NNJR that I could find in our monthly treasurer reports.

[Brandon]

The survey is result-oriented. They are seeking validation of their X2 subscription system. They are looking to generate a stream-of-income from subscriptions rather than point-of-sale income at time of purchase. (The Race Monitor app was just "upgraded" to this model, you pay $2.99 a year). AMB is also looking at replacement sale income when people lose their X2 dongles. 

 

I did the survey and disagreed with their new subscription system and new transponder; however, I wonder what good my opinions will do when they have already announced the new system.

 

Get ready to write a check to AMB every year unless we switch to a different system.

 

I agree with what you're asserting Tom.  I too am curious their reasoning for even sending out the survey in the first place other than a token 'listening to our customers' *barf* opportunity.

 

If I were going to the convention this year I would certainly be making a fuss about this within the appropriate forum.  I'm not 100% certain whether it's a case of the "SCCA proper" or the regions themselves who mandate the use of the AMB transponder; I think it boils down to the region being responsible for running accurate timing & scoring and then submitting those data to national.  National could care less whose system you use or whether it was done with paper & stopwatches would be my guess...

 

So where does that leave us as competitors?  Do we rail for SCCA National to attempt to fend off AMB's requests for money money from us in some fashion?  I can see how adding $5 to our annual membership dues, multiplied by 30k would probably be more than what they (AMB) could expect otherwise...or negotiating some form of "licensing/sponsorship" between them to get us out of their intended annual fees.

 

*grumble* *grumble*

[ChrisA]

Westhold transponders are only $185. Still overpriced for what they are, but much more reasonable cost than the AMB.

[dstevens]

Others can chime in if they feel like it, but having been on the BoT for our region and worked as "Asst. Race Chair" for an event, there is zero money coming "in" from anywhere other than members or other regions (cost-sharing agreements, series entry fees...)  No kickbacks from AMB were coming into NNJR that I could find in our monthly treasurer reports.

I've been involved with several series that use AMB and there were no kickbacks or even steep discounts. They also have a revenue stream from clubs just like yours that buy Orbits and the loop equipment and pay for Orbits upgrades/maintainance. They've been working toward the subscription model for some time now with the Flex option on the current product line.

 

The installed base is the strength they have to be able to dictate change.  As long as they use the same software and loop equipment it puts more of an onus on racers or the clubs that buy transponders to rent or as part of the event (at the Bullring they would provide the transponders as part of entry, haven't seen that before or since, usually it's a rental item).  The traction is such that unless anyone new can come in a migrate a large number of clubs any other proprietary system is likely to not be widely accepted.  

[Alberto]

 

 

As an Electrical Engineer, I can tell you that the contents of their transponders are of minimal cost.  Their site is still a terrible example of a user friendly experience.  I can't believe that somebody hasn't easily cracked in to this market.  AMB is treating this like a global enterprise, with two digit expansion a year to justify their existence.  A Privateer could make a really decent living in this market by just charging a reasonable price for the transponder and having a website that is friendly.

 

 

 

 

Their transponder has been hacked already.  You can replicate the technology using mostly off the shelf components - probably costing under $50 retail.  I think the RC car racers did that.  Or was it the model airplane peeps?  I forget.

 

The one thing that keeps their monopoly afloat is that the tracks and race organizations use their software which requires their transponder - or something similar that transmits your transponder number to the system.  

[Alberto]

 

Now for a shameless plug... my company is launching a new live timing and race results app called RaceHero next week at MSX that helps you track, analyze and share your racing.  It provides entry lists, schedules, live timing and *official* race results on your phone, tablet or computer. You might ask your region to take a look at it while we're in Charlotte - it's stupid easy to run.  We provide complete results archives like MyLaps as one component of our service and we won't charge you to access them.

 

Would that be able to replace AMB's system for timing freeing us of the tyranny of their way overpriced $500+ transponders?

 

although that yellow flag thing is kinda cool.

[dstevens]

Their transponder has been hacked already.  You can replicate the technology using mostly off the shelf components - probably costing under $50 retail.  I think the RC car racers did that.  Or was it the model airplane peeps?  I forget.

 

The one thing that keeps their monopoly afloat is that the tracks and race organizations use their software which requires their transponder - or something similar that transmits your transponder number to the system.  

The problem with hacking the transponders is going to be in the license agreement for Orbits, the software.  I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clause that didn't specifically forbid use of non AMB equipment with the software.  Not only could it be a civil issue with the license but potentially a DMCA violation if one hacked and reverse engineered the transponder to work with the AMB decoder and software.