Jump to content

Photo

Front Hub Failure

- - - - -
Started by Todd Green , 03-25-2014 09:19 PM

  • Please log in to reply
274 replies to this topic

#261
Tom Hampton
Posted 02-09-2016 09:10 AM

Tom Hampton

    Egregious Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,060 posts
  • Location:Mckinney, tx
  • Region:South west
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:41

My donor (1992) came with ONE like that.  The other hub was not the same.  I don't know which (if either) was original with the car. 


-tch
Build: www.tomhampton.info

video: vimeo.com/tomhampton

Support: X-Factor Racing

 

I didn't lose, I just got outspent!

Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#262
Brandon
Posted 02-09-2016 02:58 PM

Brandon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 765 posts
  • Location:North Jersey
  • Region:NNJR
  • Car Year:1996
  • Car Number:48SM

I wanted to bring back the old Hub failure thread, to ask a question. I came upon some old hubs I am repacking and found a hub design that I have not seen in the past.

 

It looks to be OEM hub that has an inner metal dust seal on the OUTSIDE of the hub. It looks to help keep water and dirt out of the bearing, I have never seen this before, just wondered if anyone has seen this and knows if its specific to a production year.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0796.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0797.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0798.JPG

 

All of my MSP hubs have had this ring installed.  None of the other stock hubs I've picked up (over the years) have had them that I can recall.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#263
Guest_JNJ_*
Posted 02-10-2016 09:52 AM

Guest_JNJ_*
  • Guests

I would be willing to look at a few failed parts.  I am an engineer at a OE and have been a chassis expert for over 30 years (yes I am old).  I have seen it all.  Broken hubs, control arm, balljoints, wheels, etc..  I want to see the hub and the rotor.  I would like the wheel but a real good picture might do.  I inspect my hubs for fretting often and they have been on the car a long time with no issues.  My thought is that as each car is unique, there may be a bad combo.  Like most fatigue failures, it will happen again in the same, or nearly same cycles.  You have two option, correct the problem or measure cycles and replace hubs before you reach the point of failure.  BTW, it is a good rule of thumb for a steel part, if it can break the million cycle mark, it could live long time.


#264
Steve Scheifler
Posted 02-10-2016 03:01 PM

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts
I recall actual hub failures discussed in this topic but I think this is about the bearings, or more specifically, the race failing.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#265
Roberts37
Posted 02-11-2016 12:07 AM

Roberts37

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Location:Honda America Manufacturing.
  • Region:OVR, Great Lakes
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:37

I wanted to bring back the old Hub failure thread, to ask a question. I came upon some old hubs I am repacking and found a hub design that I have not seen in the past.

 

It looks to be OEM hub that has an inner metal dust seal on the OUTSIDE of the hub. It looks to help keep water and dirt out of the bearing, I have never seen this before, just wondered if anyone has seen this and knows if its specific to a production year.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0796.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0797.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0798.JPG

 

I believe this is covered in the the hub repacking doc available in the downloads.  I may be seeing it different but they say it is just an old style of hub.  


Adam Roberts

Powered By East Street

Coached by Kyle "Caveman" Webb

2006 WKA National Champion

2016 Sci-Fi Cat Nationals Majors Winner

2017 Hoosier Super Tour Winner at Mid-Ohio

2017 STL National Champion

2018 STL Hoosier Super Tour Winner

 

A.Roberts.Racing@Gmail.com

 

Youtube: https://www.youtube....mxsSi9cqzHQGo5Q

BFG Supertour Winner - SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America Majors Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#266
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-11-2016 04:08 PM

Todd Lamb

    Driver Coach // Racer

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.
  • FTodaro, RazerX, speedengineer and 1 other like this

Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.atlspeedwerks.com
SpeedShift Transmissions - reliability and performance

Spec Miata / Spec Boxster / Spec Cayman specialist

Spec MX-5 Challenge Series Director

Global MX-5 Cup team

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#267
Jeff Wasilko
Posted 02-11-2016 04:39 PM

Jeff Wasilko

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Location:Boston, MA
  • Region:NER
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:08

Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.

 

Thanks for working with them!


#268
FTodaro
Posted 02-11-2016 08:10 PM

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.

Todd not sure what is on the table, but the idea of a better aftermarket design is appealing to me, this is a huge safety issue. After losing that rear bearing at Watkins Glen, I was fortunate that it turned out the way it did not spinning out on that excursion, but as you know my luck did not carry to the next day. Front or Rear, hub failures are scary.


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#269
Ron Alan
Posted 02-12-2016 11:28 AM

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Can you clarify Todd what 'failure" is being discussed?  It would seem there is 2 issues that are reported and discussed here...and they may be related or not...

 

1. The failure of the actual bearing/races/grease in the front or rear which lead to vibration/looseness and replacement. 

 

2. The failure of the actual metal "hub" causing wheel attached to car separation!

 

With the front "hub" "bearing" being one unit its easy to confuse the failure. When someone refers to a rear "hub" or "bearing" failure its just that...hub or bearing.


Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#270
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-12-2016 11:35 AM

Todd Lamb

    Driver Coach // Racer

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

The bearings are failing in the hub. I've never seen a failed hub that wasn't user error.


Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.atlspeedwerks.com
SpeedShift Transmissions - reliability and performance

Spec Miata / Spec Boxster / Spec Cayman specialist

Spec MX-5 Challenge Series Director

Global MX-5 Cup team

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#271
FTodaro
Posted 02-12-2016 12:06 PM

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

The bearings are failing in the hub. I've never seen a failed hub that wasn't user error.

?

Post 1, 20, 137 (page 9) 173 (page 11)

Rear hubs have also cracked.

Do we know this is user error?


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#272
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-12-2016 12:08 PM

Todd Lamb

    Driver Coach // Racer

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

I thought this was determined to be an issue with the studs?  I'm not gonna go back and read 14 pages, but the issue we are working on is the common failure of the bearings in the hubs.


Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.atlspeedwerks.com
SpeedShift Transmissions - reliability and performance

Spec Miata / Spec Boxster / Spec Cayman specialist

Spec MX-5 Challenge Series Director

Global MX-5 Cup team

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#273
FTodaro
Posted 02-12-2016 12:16 PM

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

I thought this was determined to be an issue with the studs?  I'm not gonna go back and read 14 pages, but the issue we are working on is the common failure of the bearings in the hubs.

It could be..

 

http://mazdaracers.c...r +hub +failure

 

my rear failure, had long studs

 

http://mazdaracers.c...r +hub +failure

 

Not sure about this one did not see a picture or if the hub had long studs.


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#274
RazerX
Posted 02-12-2016 02:15 PM

RazerX

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 318 posts
  • Region:N. Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:11

Hi Todd,

 

Sure you are on top of this but one the top theories about the bearings failing is poor metallurgy(composition and heat treatment) of the hub and the outer race.  It is postulated that hub is 'bell mouthing' from the stress, the inner bearing races move close together and play develops.  At some point the two inner races can not longer put the proper vector of force on bearings and they need to be replaced, prematurely.  This is why even better 'balls' don't create better longevity. 

 

Of course if there are deficiencies in the metallurgy that MAY contribute to the failures of the hub which may or may not be caused by the studs...

 

Thanks again for working with Mazda to find a reliable, safe, solution. 


 - Speed

 

 

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#275
Bench Racer
Posted 02-13-2016 10:06 AM

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Todd, Wilson Steele Posted 12-19-2012 03:22 PM   http://mazdaracers.c...treat-and-life/

 

Please see post #1 picture. Was this Mazda front hub shown in front of a Mazda package induction hardened for the outer bearing outer race?


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver
Back to Spec Miata Garage


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Mazda Racers
  2. → Spec Miata
  3. → Spec Miata Garage