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Front Hub Failure

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Started by Todd Green , 03-25-2014 09:19 PM

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#261
Tom Hampton
Posted 02-09-2016 09:10 AM

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My donor (1992) came with ONE like that.  The other hub was not the same.  I don't know which (if either) was original with the car. 


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#262
Brandon
Posted 02-09-2016 02:58 PM

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I wanted to bring back the old Hub failure thread, to ask a question. I came upon some old hubs I am repacking and found a hub design that I have not seen in the past.

 

It looks to be OEM hub that has an inner metal dust seal on the OUTSIDE of the hub. It looks to help keep water and dirt out of the bearing, I have never seen this before, just wondered if anyone has seen this and knows if its specific to a production year.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0796.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0797.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0798.JPG

 

All of my MSP hubs have had this ring installed.  None of the other stock hubs I've picked up (over the years) have had them that I can recall.


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#263
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Posted 02-10-2016 09:52 AM

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I would be willing to look at a few failed parts.  I am an engineer at a OE and have been a chassis expert for over 30 years (yes I am old).  I have seen it all.  Broken hubs, control arm, balljoints, wheels, etc..  I want to see the hub and the rotor.  I would like the wheel but a real good picture might do.  I inspect my hubs for fretting often and they have been on the car a long time with no issues.  My thought is that as each car is unique, there may be a bad combo.  Like most fatigue failures, it will happen again in the same, or nearly same cycles.  You have two option, correct the problem or measure cycles and replace hubs before you reach the point of failure.  BTW, it is a good rule of thumb for a steel part, if it can break the million cycle mark, it could live long time.


#264
Steve Scheifler
Posted 02-10-2016 03:01 PM

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I recall actual hub failures discussed in this topic but I think this is about the bearings, or more specifically, the race failing.
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#265
Roberts37
Posted 02-11-2016 12:07 AM

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I wanted to bring back the old Hub failure thread, to ask a question. I came upon some old hubs I am repacking and found a hub design that I have not seen in the past.

 

It looks to be OEM hub that has an inner metal dust seal on the OUTSIDE of the hub. It looks to help keep water and dirt out of the bearing, I have never seen this before, just wondered if anyone has seen this and knows if its specific to a production year.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0796.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0797.JPG

attachicon.gifIMG_0798.JPG

 

I believe this is covered in the the hub repacking doc available in the downloads.  I may be seeing it different but they say it is just an old style of hub.  


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#266
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-11-2016 04:08 PM

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Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.
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#267
Jeff Wasilko
Posted 02-11-2016 04:39 PM

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Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.

 

Thanks for working with them!


#268
FTodaro
Posted 02-11-2016 08:10 PM

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Just got off a conf call with Mazda. Lots of ideas being discussed and they have had conversations with NTN while reviewing failed hubs I sent them. Stay tuned.

Todd not sure what is on the table, but the idea of a better aftermarket design is appealing to me, this is a huge safety issue. After losing that rear bearing at Watkins Glen, I was fortunate that it turned out the way it did not spinning out on that excursion, but as you know my luck did not carry to the next day. Front or Rear, hub failures are scary.


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#269
Ron Alan
Posted 02-12-2016 11:28 AM

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Can you clarify Todd what 'failure" is being discussed?  It would seem there is 2 issues that are reported and discussed here...and they may be related or not...

 

1. The failure of the actual bearing/races/grease in the front or rear which lead to vibration/looseness and replacement. 

 

2. The failure of the actual metal "hub" causing wheel attached to car separation!

 

With the front "hub" "bearing" being one unit its easy to confuse the failure. When someone refers to a rear "hub" or "bearing" failure its just that...hub or bearing.


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#270
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-12-2016 11:35 AM

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The bearings are failing in the hub. I've never seen a failed hub that wasn't user error.


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#271
FTodaro
Posted 02-12-2016 12:06 PM

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The bearings are failing in the hub. I've never seen a failed hub that wasn't user error.

?

Post 1, 20, 137 (page 9) 173 (page 11)

Rear hubs have also cracked.

Do we know this is user error?


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#272
Todd Lamb
Posted 02-12-2016 12:08 PM

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I thought this was determined to be an issue with the studs?  I'm not gonna go back and read 14 pages, but the issue we are working on is the common failure of the bearings in the hubs.


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#273
FTodaro
Posted 02-12-2016 12:16 PM

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I thought this was determined to be an issue with the studs?  I'm not gonna go back and read 14 pages, but the issue we are working on is the common failure of the bearings in the hubs.

It could be..

 

http://mazdaracers.c...r +hub +failure

 

my rear failure, had long studs

 

http://mazdaracers.c...r +hub +failure

 

Not sure about this one did not see a picture or if the hub had long studs.


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#274
RazerX
Posted 02-12-2016 02:15 PM

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Hi Todd,

 

Sure you are on top of this but one the top theories about the bearings failing is poor metallurgy(composition and heat treatment) of the hub and the outer race.  It is postulated that hub is 'bell mouthing' from the stress, the inner bearing races move close together and play develops.  At some point the two inner races can not longer put the proper vector of force on bearings and they need to be replaced, prematurely.  This is why even better 'balls' don't create better longevity. 

 

Of course if there are deficiencies in the metallurgy that MAY contribute to the failures of the hub which may or may not be caused by the studs...

 

Thanks again for working with Mazda to find a reliable, safe, solution. 


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#275
Bench Racer
Posted 02-13-2016 10:06 AM

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Todd, Wilson Steele Posted 12-19-2012 03:22 PM   http://mazdaracers.c...treat-and-life/

 

Please see post #1 picture. Was this Mazda front hub shown in front of a Mazda package induction hardened for the outer bearing outer race?


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