8 replies to this topic

[5X Racing]

I know it doesn't say we can in the rules, and I think it should, but why can we not use the red Ground Control Coilover sleeve kit for our bilstein shocks for SM? I have this kit on my street Miata and it is a far superior product than the awr Coilover sleeves that come with the SM suspension kit. It doesn't bind due to dirt (trust me, my street car is anything but clean), and the locking mechanism clamps the collar to the sleeve rather than gouging it with a set screw. I think it is even cheaper to buy separate.

Is there a verifiable reason for not letting us use this kit? Or, has it just not been requested?

[Mike Collins]

If you have a VERY old log book you can get away with Ground Control kits, but I think we even did away with that Grandfather rule.

Basically it came down to us using the MAZDASPEED Kit in its entirety. The ground control kit is slightly different in its dimension than the AWR kit. I think one of the two lets you lower the car further than the other.

[steveracer]

Doesn't the new rule say you can use any coil over kit as long as it is functionally the same?

9.1.8

3. Coil-Over kit
Front/Rear 0000-04-5402AW: The sleeves and perches
may be replaced with parts of the same material and
dimensions.

[Mike Collins]

Doesn't the new rule say you can use any coil over kit as long as it is functionally the same?

9.1.8

3. Coil-Over kit
Front/Rear 0000-04-5402AW: The sleeves and perches
may be replaced with parts of the same material and
dimensions.

I don't think the ground control kit fits into this. You can buy the same pieces AWR sells on the open market for less if you know what you are looking for.

[5X Racing]

Huh, I didn't realize they were of different dimensions. My GC sleeves fit better on the bilsteins, snug enough that they won't rotate when adjusting, the mazdaspeed sleeves fit loose, guess that's where the dimension difference lies.

What a shame, as I don't see being able to lower the car more with the GC's as an advantage, and if everones car is like mine I would be solidly resting on bumpstops if I went to the lowest level on my mazdaspeed sleeves.

Think a request to the crb would do any good Mike?

Thanks for the info

[Mike Collins]

While I understand your want and desire, there are 2500+ of the AWR style kit already out there and if we were to approve another kit that had less slop or adjusted better people would find a reason to think you had a competitive advantage whether it be real or perceived. I don't think approving another option would be in the best interest of the class.

You are more than welcome to send a letter to the CRB via the online submission form, it will get kicked down to the SMAC and you read my opinion here first.

[Sean Allen]

If all you run is Regional events, what about contacting your local region perhaps? I agree with your feelings on the kit. In SFR it's legal.

[5X Racing]

While I understand your want and desire, there are 2500+ of the AWR style kit already out there and if we were to approve another kit that had less slop or adjusted better people would find a reason to think you had a competitive advantage whether it be real or perceived. I don't think approving another option would be in the best interest of the class.

You are more than welcome to send a letter to the CRB via the online submission form, it will get kicked down to the SMAC and you read my opinion here first.

I catch your drift Mike, I just see a superior part that is more affordable/same price to somebody building a new car, or for somebody offering parts for people to build new cars, like us. I recently put an SM suspension kit together for a customer and have access to these GC kits through suppliers, and wondered why we don't allow them. Clarification successful.

My level of thinking was more along the lines of the 99 shock hat, then Fat Cat bumpstop kit allowance. The GC sleeves only improve the ability to adjust the suspension (and negligible differences in ride height), whereas the Fat Cats were introduced to solve the problem of the air gap with the Mazdaspeed bumpstops used on the 99 shock hats (right? I think...) That was indeed something everyone felt they needed for a competitive advantage, as it does offer an advantage, as well as adding $350 to the cost of your NA suspension kits. Was it for the better of the class? Not considering the cost involved, but yes for the improvement of the system. That's my point really, it would be an improvement to the system, like the 99 hats/Fat Cats. And, I hope people would know better than to go out and buy new sleeves on the assumption they would improve on track performance, they are the same physically with different (smarter) collars and a better fitting sleeve (stays in place when turning the collars). And, like I noted before, I don't believe the cars physically cannot go low enough to realize the extended adjustment of the GC sleeves.

Obviously I am for the better of the class, but in light of the recent allowances (fuel pressure, timing), this class seems to be leaning towards innovation and creativity more so than pure "spec" (ala Spec Racer Ford style). The horse is beaten and dead, if I want to take it further I will email the CRB, and you can thumbs down it!

As always, thanks for the constructive conversation and views!

Oh, and for anyone that is wondering what the hell these GC coilovers are, here is a link: http://www.ground-co...php/II=43/CA=87

Note the bottom collar, that's what I like about them.

[Mike Collins]

The Fat Cat system was adopted because there was a problem, a real actual problem. It was not for aesthetics or because it adjust better, it fixed shocks blowing out through the top. I have never read of or seen one failure of an AWR coilover kit or identically sourced product. So while I like you train of thought I don't see it as the same thing. And since you own a business and have access to wholesalers I am CERTAIN you can find where the AWR kit comes from and your cost would be considerably less than that of the GC kit.