18 replies to this topic

[RobSpec]

Hi All,

I have a strange problem with the starter in my 99.   About half the time when I turn the key I get a click and nothing else.  Other times it cranks and fires right away.  I have been through 3 starters, the last one direct from mazdaspeed and I still have the problem.  Sometimes I have to turn the key 20 times before it will crank.  I have tried a new battery and made sure it is fully charged.  I just added a dedicated ground wire thinking it wasn't well grounded but it didn't help. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks Rob 

[LarryKing]

What type of kill switch are you using? The plastic Longacre switches frequently fail.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

could be a faulty key switch had this problem in a 97 once new key switch and key from the grand old junk yard in Memphis fixed it right up.

[Bench Racer]

To eliminate the starter/sol from the equasion use a two wire push button tool that is used to rotate the engine without using the key. Hook directly to ground and the positive cable on the starter. You may choose to disconnect positive battery cable when clamping to positive cable on starter. Push button and see results of starter/sol.

[Bruce Wilson]

I occasionally have the same problem on my 91.  I've been through several starters, so that's not it.   Have been told that it's a ground problem, but have yet to find the culprit. 

[Charlie Hayes]

I have found that the clutch switch could cause this problem on 99s. A simple pig tail with two spades on the end can fix that.

[RobSpec]

Thanks

I am going to try removing the clutch interlock switch first since that is easy.    I will make up a pig tail with spade connectors and give it a try.   Then I guess the ignition switch would be the next possible culprit.  Not sure if I will get to it this week though.  Racing Daytona this weekend May 3-4. 

[jguthrie]

I had the same electrical gremlin for 3 years . Put 3 starters in ,battery  ,checked and clean grounds .

The issue was the secondary wire to the starter was severed in the caseing . Fiquared I had damage

it doing a motor change  . I barely saw a mark in the casing ,I pulled on the end and the wire came apart in my hand .

To be clear ,its the ignition  switch wire that slides onto the starter .

[Kevin Anderson]

I had to resort to a Start button in my old 91. Same problem. Never could isolate what was the cause. But once I wired in a start button never had a problem again. The key still functions as normal but just push a button to engage the starter

[SaulSpeedwell]

Next time it happens, jumper cable the juice straight to the starter.  I bet it isn't the starter, but your cables and kill switch can't carry the 100+ amps needed to get things going.

 

Kill switches fail all the time, especially if they aren't "cycled" to clean the contacts.  Bolt a brass bar right across the big terminals to diagnose whether this is your problem.

 

I've also seen this happen when the fat ground cable at the back of the PPF is corroded, missing, not connected, etc.

 

Let us know what happens.

[Jamz14]

Im with Charlie on this one. This same thing is going on with our car at the moment. I have the kid hold the key in the start position and push the clutch in and out until it engages. My back is too messed up to fix the switch right now.

 

Speaking of fixing the switch though, I hear people saying putting a spade lugged jumper across the switch to bypass. Wouldn't it just be simplier to cut the wires and tie them together? Am I missing something?

[RazerX]

I have found that the clutch switch could cause this problem on 99s. A simple pig tail with two spades on the end can fix that.

 

Charlie, have you figured out to do a clutch delete on a 99?  I tried a jumper that worked on my 90 but the 99 car won't start with it in.  I figured the ECU must detect the circuit is 'shorted' when it comes on with the key?

[Johnny D]

I did a search for Miata Clutch Switch Override, you can too

 

So there's something about your thrust bearing not having oil at startup so you should bypass.

There's instructions/diagrams for each year.

 

Some pics from some guy named Alberto.

http://blog.miatarac...tch-switch.html

 

And then there's this.

http://www.flyinmiat...number=08-80000

 

J~

[RazerX]

Hey Johnny,

 

I did the same thing shown in the first link in my 90 but when I attempted the same in the 99 it would not start.  The flying miata would clearly work but i would have to remove the switch and i have no idea how long i would have to be in upside down clown position to get that switch out.  Have you done this on your car?

 

I saw your in car from the last race weekend.  Very nice drive to catch and pass me.  Argy bargy... sheesh... 

[Johnny D]

No, I need to do it.

 

Just from your post...

Is it in Neutral? Dangerous if not. There's also another Switch at the tranny too.

Did you bypass the wrong plug, should be the female one, I think.

 

I understand what your saying with Flying Miata pic.

I was thinking it would just cover the case, like bypassing a interlock switch, but have to take a look.

 

Also I had posted last night, but seemed you didn't see it.

Are you clicking, "view new content" upper right? Gives you current posts.

 

Thanks on the drive, one of my best.

J~

[RWP80000]

Everyone seems to be looking at this as an electrical problem and it may very well be, but I have seen mechanical issues that can have the exact same symptoms.  It may also be related to either milling of the flywheel ring gear teeth or mis-alignment of the starter motor.

 

Next time you encounter the problem, put the car in gear and bump it to rotate the engine to a different position and try cranking it again.  If it is cranks OK it's probably not electrical. The starter drive is probably hitting on an area of the ring gear where the tooth profile has been damaged.  Due to the nature of the engine design (firing order/compression strokes) the engine does not just stop randomly but will typically favor certain locations which can result in the localized ring gear damage/wear.

 

I have also found a similar problem when running a early design trans where you only have two bolts to fasten the 99 starter motor in place or if you are rushing and tighten down the starter slightly off-center. In this case loosen the starter and make sure it as neutral in the opening as possible and retighten.

 

Rich

[RobSpec]

This weekend I finally got the time to attack the clutch switch.  I really hate laying upside down in the race seat with my head under the dash.  )  I started with a jumper but could not come up with a good solid way to keep the jumper in so I cut the wires and crimped them together with a heat shrink crimp.  So far it seems to have solved my starting issues.  I will let you know if that changes in the next couple of races but as of now it appears the problem was the switch and it is fixed.  Thanks for all of the great suggestions. 

Rob

[Juan Pineda]

Problem may be mechanical. Suspect your ring gear. If you can bump the car to rotate the engine a bit and then it starts, it's possible the problem is with the ring gear.

 

The thing is that the ring gear teeth get rounded and so the pinion does not engage when the solenoid shoots it out. When the pinion doesn't engage, current is not supplied to the starter, so you only get the click with no turning action.

 

So my car was having problems starting. After several tries would usually start it. Also bumping it helped. Swapping in a different stater didn't help. The ring gear showed rounded teeth in some spots. I replaced the ring gear, rebuilt the starter, and replaced the key switch and now it's much better. I suspect rebuilding the starter was unnecessary. But I figured I'd cover all bases.

 

-Juan

[ner88]

I chased a similar problem on a 99', finally figured out someone had installed an early engine/tranny plate on the car.

The starter never set properly.