25 replies to this topic

[Todd Tagget]

about to buy a new clutch.. getting mixed opinions.  6 or 4 puck ? sprung or solid ? Did a search couldn't find and discussions

[Johnny D]

http://mazdaracers.c...ge-1#entry54720

 

J~

[Team Nitro]

Todd: While you are there, is there a new solder going in ???

[Johnny D]

Todd: While you are there, is there a new solder going in ???

 

Solder ??

J~

[Ron Alan]

See what happens when you don't listen...Johnny makes you look like a dumbass

I expect to see a Bear photo posted here soon!

[SaulSpeedwell]

3-puck SPRUNG hub on stock pressure plate if you care/worry about/have experienced drivetrain shock related DNFs, i.e. ring and pinion failures, pinion crush sleeve collapses, or transmission gear failure.

 

The number of pucks don't really matter for us - more pucks does provide smoother engagement, so for "street/strip" guys something like a 6-puck is better.  3, 4, or 6 pucks, all are within a fraction of a pound of each other.

 

The advantage of the "puck" clutches with sintered metal friction material is they are highly oil resistant in the event of engine main seal or trans input seal weepage, and they grab so well that for our puny 125 HP application we don't really have to get the flywheel surface and clutch break-in procedure "perfect".

 

If I had a rental car, I think I'd be running a 6-puck sprung hub.

If I thought I would actually win the Runoffs, I'd run a 3-puck unsprung.

 

No reason at all for the +40% pressure plate if you are running a puck clutch. 

[davew]

I rarely disagree with Saul, but I will on this occasion.

 

Disclaimer: I am an ACT clutch dealer, it is all I use and sell.

 

I have weighed many 3 and 4 puck clutches, the 4 puck ACT unsprung is the lightest I can find. By an ounce or two, but here at Mazdaracers we strive for accuracy and facts, there is never any speculation or BS here!!!!

 

Do not use OEM style riveted "asbestos type" discs. The rivets fail often, causing the friction material to fall off the disc, leaving you stranded on track.

 

If you are having continuous drive train failure, use the sprung hub. All my rentals have unsprung hubs with no outrageous rate of trans failures

 

Sintered metal clutches are like 2 pieces of metal when they get oil in between. The will definately slip if the clutch gets oiled down. But they can be cleaned and reused. Unlike an "asbestos style" clutch that once it is wet, it is junk.

 

Do we NEED a 40% stronger pressure plate? Probably not. But I like the feel of the ACT over a street pressure plate. SInce, I rarely drive my racecar in stop and go traffic, I have never had issues with my left leg getting tired. Plus, I like packages that are designed to work together. As the old TV commercial said; "It doesn't just fit, it matches"

 

In 10 years of selling ACT clutches, I have had 3 issues, 1 pressure plate, 1 disc and one package error. In each case the problem was solved with 1 phone call. To me that is priceless.

 

My biased 2 cents

 

dave

[tra68]

Getting ready for the 2016 season and was interested in reviving this post.

 

Any new or different thoughts on this topic since the post was made about 1 1/2 years ago?

 

Is there any different pedal feel between sprung and unsprung clutches?

[Steve Scheifler]

No and No.

You are welcome.

Actually, I have been revisiting this as well. Probably will stick with the unsprung 4-puck but switch to stock plates to see how they feel.

[suck fumes]

Stock pressure plate. 3 puck unsprung exedy disc. Lightest legal combo.

[Steve Scheifler]

I have been unable to find an unsprung exedy disc even on their own site. Part number?

[Mike Collins]

Not Exedy, but this is what alot of guys run.

 

http://clutchnet.com...mart&Itemid=140

[suck fumes]

There ya go. Same disc different name sticker

[Steve Scheifler]

Thanks! You prefer their 3-puck over the 4-puck for the quicker bite, or because it weighs a bit less, or...?

[Jim Drago]

Thanks! You prefer their 3-puck over the 4-puck for the quicker bite, or because it weighs a bit less, or...?

We have used this clutch disc since 05/06. No issues. I have no issues with three puck. I have never weighed four puck, but Dave Wheeler has said in the past that the four puck actually weighs less? Seems opposite of normal thinking, but I think he actually weighed them. For me.. years of no problems made the decision not to change an easy one.
Jim

[FTodaro]

I have used both the Act 4 puck and the clutchnet 3 puck. Currently using the 3 puck.

Also use stock pressure plate as i think the 3 puck has more bite and the HD pressure plate would be to much IMO,

 

After about 4 seasons, my 4 puck gave it up started to crack but getting 4 seasons out of anything is pretty good.

 

Happy with the current combo.

 

Having seen what happens to a transmission with hard up shifting(breaking syncros) and letting the clutch out to soon on the downshift, (destroying the counter shaft and third Gear) to heavy braking in 5th gear, (twisting the counter shaft) i think its wise to run a Soft Pressure plate, but that is just me.

[SaulSpeedwell]

If I could edit my May 2014 post, I would add this: http://wordpress.mrr...rackle-and-pop/

 

The number of pucks in a clutch is a bit like the number of brake pads.  The fastest cars in the whole whurrrllllldd still have two "pucks" (brake pads) per wheel.  Jumbo jets have entire discs of friction material that couple with the rotors. 

 

For those of us NOT racing "Spec Boeing 747" (nor the much more sophisticated "Airbus Club Of America" trackday playdates where no passing without point-bys is allowed and you will get expelled from the wine/caviar/brie party if you bend any sheetmetal), the number of "pucks" is secondary to the friction material they are made of.      

 

The clutch is not a good place to find improved laptimes.  If you go 3 seasons on a clutch, trans, and diff, or you are truly trying to win the Puntoffs - you might as well run the lightest/most bitey stuff possible.  But - If you replace any of the above in less than 3 seasons, the last thing you need is faster bite and less weight in your clutch parts.  If anything, you need MORE compliance in the drivetrain - and the easiest way to address shock loading to the drivetrain is a sprung-hub clutch with MORE pucks or (perish the thought) a full face 360 degree clutch lining.

[davew]

Several years ago I weighed the 3 puck and the 4 puck ACT unsprung. I found the 4 puck to be slightly lighter. I am sure not enough to make a difference in lap times.

My personal feeling is that the disc and plate should match, not just work. Friction material needs a certain amount of clamping force. Using a disc and pressure plate from the same manufacturer assures me that everything will match, and work as designed. I sell the ACT package, but stand behind this statement for any brand of clutch, on any application.

Just my opinion
Dave

[Jim Drago]

The clutch is not a good place to find improved laptimes.  If you go 3 seasons on a clutch, trans, and diff, or you are truly trying to win the Puntoffs - you might as well run the lightest/most bitey stuff possible.  But - If you replace any of the above in less than 3 seasons, the last thing you need is faster bite and less weight in your clutch parts.

This is VERY good advice... We have had 4-5 drivers routinely under tent the last 5 years or so, all with identical equipment. Three have gone through transmissions at a rate of at least two per season. The other two have never "lost' a trans in the last 5 years. Transmission failures are 95% driver related IMHO. With the drivers having the issues.. sprung clutches offered no relief either.

[Steve Scheifler]

Not Exedy, but this is what alot of guys run.

http://clutchnet.com...mart&Itemid=140

You know anyone there or how to get them to respond? It's been over two weeks since I received an order confirmation email. I sent an email last week and tried calling today. No response.

Anyone thinking of placing an order might want to wait till they are confirmed still actively filling orders rather than just taking them.