19 replies to this topic

[manthony121]

Hi.

 

I suppose I should confess right up front that my daily ride is a Honda Civic Si sedan.  I owned a E36 BMW up until about 6 years ago, and took it to my local race track (Watkins Glen) for high performance driving schools several times, with the BMWCCA.  When I got rid of it, I stopped tracking for a few years.  Now, I am getting into it again, more seriously than before.  Though the Honda likes to go fast, I am reaching the point that I am ready to get a dedicated track car.

 

Among my options are to get another BMW, or a Nissan 350Z, and "trackify" it myself.  However, cost is (always) a consideration, which led me to look at the Spec Miatas.

 

At this point, I'm not really interested in racing, as much as open track performance driving.  Of course, there was a time in my life when I wasn't interested in eating anything other than baby food, until I started growing teeth.  Which is one reason why SM appeals to me: if I DO decide to move into racing, I'll have the car already, and the experience driving it.

 

I've read several of the threads on starting out, joined this forum, and ordered a copy of Dave Wheeler's book.  My tentative plan is to buy either a first or second generation race prepped Miata and trailer, hopefully keeping the initial outlay below $20k.  Assuming the car and trailer are light enough, I can use my wife's Nissan Rogue as a tow vehicle, and rent a site to store them between track outings.  The only track I've driven on is WGI, but I plan to get to Lime Rock soon, and possibly some others, near by: Toronto, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Pocono.

 

So, how is that for a plan?  I mean, beyond the fact that I'm about to start spending a whole pile of $$$ on a hobby that has a nearly infinite ability to absorb as much money as you care to throw at it.  Does anyone know anyone near WGI who can talk me out of this?  Give me advice?  If I'm not racing yet, should I join the SCCA or NASA?  Will my wife divorce me?  Will my children rise up against me?  I'd love to hear from anybody who has anything to say, good, bad, or indifferent.

 

Oh, and BTW, I think that a "newbie" section for this forum would be a great idea, with lots of pinned reference articles.

[manthony121]

Yikes!  I was just reading about the "Targa Miata" project (www.targamiata.com/miataspecs.php).

 

A 5L V8 in a Miata????   I didn't know that was even possible!  I think I'll stick with the 1.6/1.8L I4 for now....

[Bench Racer]

Please use the site search engine, upper righthand corner with magnifying glass. Read through stuff that has been layed out for other folks in the need to learn before they buy or construct a car.

 

Have Fun   

David

[DrDomm]

Where are you located?

[davew]

Thanks for purchasing my book, I hope you enjoy it and that it answers all your questions.

 

I doubt anybody here will be trying to talk you out of racing a SM.

 

I have 2 cars that I am going to be putting up for sale when I have a moment to breathe (next week after the Sprints) and a nice open trailer. Package will be under your budget easily.

 

Dave

[Jim Drago]

Thanks for purchasing my book, I hope you enjoy it and that it answers all your questions.

 

 

 

 

I give my copy to every new employee that we start.. saves me a lot of time answering questions

[Andrew Stowell]

I think it would be a very good decision to get a logbooked race car even if you only do track days. The safety of a full roll cage, proper seat, and harness is really important when you start to do a lot of track time. I would certainly not talk you out of a Spec Miata, since they are great starter cars, you can easily find a good one in your price range, and you will always have people to race against. I think you could also consider Spec E30 or Spec 3 Series since you had an E36 previously and might like something similar. I wouldn't recommend a 350Z, mostly because of cost and there are not nearly as many racing to compete with and share info. Something that already has a race history will save you a lot of time and money if you do decide to start racing. Converting a street car to a race car is almost always going to cost more, especially if you end up undoing things you did to use it as a track car.

 

I would recommend joining both NASA and SCCA and trying out tracks days with both of them. The basic memberships are cheap enough and you have a lot of events to chose from between both of them. When it comes to getting a race license, you might be better off with NASA since they will give you a provisional license based just on doing their HDPEs, which you will probably be doing anyway. SCCA requires a drivers school, which can get you a provisional license in a weekend, but they only hold a school once or twice a year. You can use a NASA license for SCCA events, and you can get a NASA license if you have a SCCA license, so it's not an issue which you get.

 

As for towing with your Rogue, I think that might be pushing it to it's limits. A race car is going to weigh at least 2000 lb and a basic open trailer like mine will weight 1500-2000 lb even if it's aluminum (which costs $Texas BTW) so you are probably at or exceeding the tow limit. Not to say you can't try it, but you may need to consider upgrading to something bigger before too long.

[bmarshall1]

From one newb to another; welcome!

 

I have completed driver's school and it was a blast, since then I have relocated and am trying to get both our new house set up and my car ready to race, it's a chore but well worth it.  There's pleanty of great advice on here and people are willing to help.

[James York]

.........  Assuming the car and trailer are light enough, I can use my wife's Nissan Rogue as a tow vehicle, and rent a site to store them between track outings.  .........

A Nissan Rouge's tow capacity is 1,000 lbs.  There is no way you should be pulling a car and trailer with that.  You will be way underbraked.  Probably can't even get a receiver properlly fitted to the vehicle with the correct size to hook up a trailer large enough for a car.

 

You should find some other way to get your car to the track. 

[Bench Racer]

Hi.

 

 

At this point, I'm not really interested in racing, as much as open track performance driving. 

 

Options are always a great thing. You could have a full or partial roll cage installed, along with a true racing seat/belts/helmet/head & neck restraint and the Spec Miata suspension. Keep the car street driveable and no need for a trailer or tow vehicle. If it real lights your fire you can complete the build into a full fledged Spec Miata. In the mean time, while high performance driving, if you wad the thing, hitch hike home. Whatever you do look, learn and ask many questions before you start doing.

[manthony121]

DrDomm: I'm located in upstate New York, about 30 minutes drive (at normal speed) from Watkins Glen.

 

davew: I'm looking forward to reading your book.  I also downloaded an e-book version of Keith Tanner's (Flyin Miata) book from Barnes & Noble.  I like e-books, but having a hard copy is good, too.

 

Andrew Stowell: thanks for your input.  Just after I put up my original post, we've decided to trade the Rogue on something newer.  I'm trying to convince my wife (it's her car) that a 6 cylinder would be a wise investment.  However, she's not dumb...

 

bmarshall1: Good luck!  What school did you go to?  I'm looking at Skip Barber.

 

James York: It turns out I won't be using the Rogue, after all.  Thanks for the info.  On further reflection, I think I'll keep the car street legal at first, and just drive it to the track.  We will be replacing the Rogue, and I'm encouraging my wife to like something that would also be usable as a tow vehicle.  However, we've been married for over 30 years, so it's a little hard to get one past her.

 

Bench Racer: Good advice, thank you.  I agree that driving to and from the track, especially as it's nearby, is the way to start.  If I keep with it, I'll have to start trailering, but that can wait for a bit.

 

All: thanks for your interest and input.  My next immediate goal is to sign up for either racing or HP driving school with Skip Barber at Lime Rock.  I'll keep y'all posted.

[bmarshall1]

manthony,

 

I went to the SCCA sponsored driver's school at Summit Point this past March,  we had sessions in the sun, drizzle, pouring rain, and snow; I am now prepared for anything!

 

I chose the SCCA sponspored as it was vastly less expensive, maybe $199?  I looked into the Barber and such but the price was more than I wanted to spend, for that money you can purchase your safety gear and have some left over for the car.  Look on the SCCA website for the schools, the site is hard to navigate but it's there.  As an alternate call the SCCA directly, they are very helpful.

[davew]

Every race school is different. The same school with a different group of instructors will be different. And this is just my opinion.

 

Skippy schools, and other similar pro schools, have the primary focus of getting you to came back and do another Skippy school. Their secondary focus is to teach you how to drive their car without crashing. Which is totally different from teaching you how to race. The $4000-5000 cost of a pro school can be 50% of the purchase price of a good used race car.

 

OR; rent a car for the next SCCA race school. get you feet wet, have fun with no worries. Determine if you really like this goofy game enough to spend untold dollars. probably less outlay than a pro school and you will learn to race.

 

HPDE/track days is not racing. They share a few skill sets but do not prepare you for tight competition wheel to wheel racing. In fact it can create bad habits that are hard to break once you do start racing.

 

My advice; If your goal is to race, then race. Prepare yourself and your budget (and the wife) to do it properly. Buy a race car, go to a race school and learn how to race. In the end it will be less money and more fun. Also, stay within your budget, you can have just as much, if not more fun, racing for 25th place in a $10k SM than the big budget guys who want to win at any co$t.

 

Also Keith's book is great. I own a copy and he has a copy of mine. But it is not a Spec Miata based book. It is more geared for the street performance crowd. I think you will also find that a technical book is better off in paper form than an e-book. I prefer e-books for novels, but like something I can make notes and dog-ear pages for more technical stuff.

 

Another 2 cents

Dave

[Parity]

 

HPDE/track days is not racing. They share a few skill sets but do not prepare you for tight competition wheel to wheel racing. In fact it can create bad habits that are hard to break once you do start racing.

 

 

I agree with the rest of the post except this point. While HPDE is definitely not racing nor does it prepare you for w2w action it is a useful tool to develop proper driving technique UNDER THE RIGHT COACHING. I did DE's until I saw my lap time time get within a few seconds of race times for the class then made the jump. I've also seen guys some through comp school with very little track experience. Not only are they usually way off pace but also have poor vision and track awareness which makes them somewhat unpredictable and possibly dangerous.

 

I like NASA's format where you progress through HPDE levels until you're ready for comp school.

 

My .025

[DrDomm]

DrDomm: I'm located in upstate New York, about 30 minutes drive (at normal speed) from Watkins Glen.

 

Ok, that's better than "Northeast USA".  I'd tell you that I'm in upstate NY, about a 60 minute drive (not normal speed) from Watkins Glen, but you can see exactly where I am by looking at my profile.  If you were less secretive I could tell you if you're 30 minutes from me, or 90.  You might be interested to stop by, see my car, and chat sometime.  I'm not a stalker...hopefully no one else is here.  Posting my town on this forum hasn't caused me any harm. 

[Johnny D]

Hi.

 

 

 

[svvs]

Ok, that's better than "Northeast USA".  I'd tell you that I'm in upstate NY, about a 60 minute drive (not normal speed) from Watkins Glen, but you can see exactly where I am by looking at my profile.  If you were less secretive I could tell you if you're 30 minutes from me, or 90.  You might be interested to stop by, see my car, and chat sometime.  I'm not a stalker...hopefully no one else is here.  Posting my town on this forum hasn't caused me any harm. 

If you want to see a very nice build, Domm's car is solid.  Fresh build, great cage, and he keeps his equipment very clean.

 

If you want to meet some of the top guys in Spec Miata, WGI is hosting the SCCA majors tour over July 4th weekend.  If you can't make that event, there is a regional  a few weeks later....the July Sprints.

 

There is usually a licensing school at WGI in October.  I've "instructed" at it a few times, and to me it seems very well run.

 

I would recommend doing HPDE's until you have a handle on the car and prepping yourself for events....then get into a race school.  I spent about 6 months doing DE's before racing, and while the awareness and driving skills I learned were great, the racing is totally different.

 

Edit to add that Planet Miata is down in Wilkes Barre PA, and they have cars available for rent at different events. They also provide different levels of build and caged rollers.  May be a good way to get your feet wet.  www.planet-miata.com

 

-Vick

[manthony121]

davew:  Your book arrived today, and I just flipped through it.  I can't wait to sit down an ponder each page!  I'm not much of a mechanic.  At least, not yet.  I never worked on cars in my youth, and now that I'm approaching 60, rolling around on the garage floor is going to start getting harder.  Within the past 2 years, I have started wrenching on my Civic, installing a larger rear sway bar, and front camber bolts.  I also change the pads and rotors before going on track.  My big revelation from such dabbling is that a car is really just things bolted to other things, and with the right tools and little problem-solving ability, almost anything is possible.

 

WRT driving schools, I have a fair amount of track time, but mostly in the form of going fast with a more experienced driver next to me, telling me if my turn in is too late or too early.  I've never done any training on a skid pad.  It makes me wonder if a more formal school, like Skip's, would be worth the $$$.  As I said, I'm mostly interested in driving fast, but I suspect that deep down inside, I'll want to race.

 

I like your suggestion of renting a car for an SCCA school.  I'll definitely look into that.

 

Vicktor:  Thanks for the tips WRT upcoming events/opportunities at WGI.  I'll check them out!

[manthony121]

I just got home from the BF Goodrich Super Tour at Watkins Glen, where I was a spectator.  It sure looks like great fun!  I got to meet some of the drivers and teams, and collected some info about renting a car for racing school in the Fall, and racing next year.  I got to talk with Nick Leverone, FlatOut Motorsports, who is a regular at the Glen.  I stopped by the Meathead Racing trailer, but nobody was around.  I'll try to hook up with them tomorrow.  I didn't see Planet Miata there today, nor are they listed on the entry list.  I have also exchanged emails with Berg Racing, in Rochester, but they weren't there today, either.

 

I was hoping some vendors would be there, so I could try on racing suits, shoes, etc, but all I saw was a souvenier stand.  Are there other events where they have more of a presence?  It seems like trying on apparel would be better than buying over the Internet.

 

It certainly was a beautiful day for racing, and everyone seemed to be having a great time.  Tomorrow looks like it will be just as nice.  See ya then!

[Michael Colangelo]

Renting at first is definitely the way to go.

P.S., I was at Lime Rock yesterday. Even in the soaking rain it's an awesome facility.