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Looking For A/F Ratio Gauge Recommendation and Starting Point For Best AFR

- - - - - A/F AFR Gauge AEM Innovate LC-2 Ratio Air Fuel Ratio

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#1
bmarshall1

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Hi All,

 

The title pretty much says it.  What are you using for AFR gauge and why?  I see a few Innovate recommendations and a few for AEM.  From what I understand the Innovate is slightly more accurate (1/10 of a point) but is that small margin of error going to make a difference.  Also, what is the O2 sensor controller and do I need it on my '99?

 

The AEM does not seem to have the controller box (unless it's built in).  Price wise that are competetive.

 

Lastly, what AFR are you shooting for at what RPM.  I know different cars will make power at different levels, but what is a good basic starting point?

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

Bruce



#2
Bench Racer

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Bruce, I searched "air fuel ratio" and 2 pages of threads showed. Granted some of the posts will have minimal info. Is't a place to start.
I have an Innovate with their dash gauge and it's instant feed back. Once, the air fuel ratio showed 22 to 1 and that at an instant scared the $hit out of me. Then I looked at my fuel pressure gauge mounted outside the windshield on the cowl, fuel pressure ok, presumed it was a 02 sensor issue. After the fact the issue was the 02 sensor, needed to be re-calibrated in free air. Took it out the exhaust system and re-calibrated while out in the open/free air. I have no memory data capability. Don't remember why it was my choice.


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#3
bmarshall1

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Thanks Bench,

 

I did a search and there was so much information my brain starting swimming :blink: , also seems a lot of info geared to the NA.

 

I'll take another look and see if I can better filter out the chaff and get to the pertinent information.

 

Bruce



#4
AJ Roderick

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The controller for the innovate allows you to connect to a data system like Traqmate so you can also read AFR in your data.


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#5
Charlie Hayes

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The AEM has a 0-5v output to log in your data system of choice also. They both use the same sensors as far as I know. I do know a lot of people with the innovate systems, I how ever put AEMs in the cars I build and log them in the traqmate and compare results to the dyno to make sure both are on the same page.
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#6
Keith Andrews

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You want a Wideband A/F gauge.  The AEM does not require any calibrating (good thing) it has a brain in the plug (Bosch) I think.  I have the Autometer Wideband A/F gauge that uses the same type of plug.  I use other Autometer gauges so they look the same.  I know my Autometer has data logging capability. 

 

You only need to have one O2 sensor for your 99 to run.  Your A/F gauge will have a separate O2 sensor that screws into your exhaust.

 

Regarding what A/F ratio you are looking for.  Get an experienced Miata person to tune your car on the dyno.   Compare the dyno air/fuel to your gauge.  Then at the track you will have a good target you can be confident in.  


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#7
Jeff Wasilko

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i had a innovate in my previous car and it was a huge pain. It would often error on over-temp, despite having a heat-sink on the bung. I recalibrated the sensor every oil change and it helped a little.

 

My new car has an AEM UEGO and i've had it in for about 25 running hours and 1000 track miles. It's had zero issues so far.

 

The AEM is also totally contained in the gauge, with 2 harnesses that plug into it. The innovate used to require a separate external box, not sure if it still does.



#8
bmarshall1

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Thanks Guys,

 

I have decided to go with the AEM, most forums are saying the same thing: the Innovate recalibration is kind of a pain and the AEM is set and forget.  I plan on getting my car to a SM expert and let them do some adjusting.



#9
ChrisA

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I got the AEM because I didn't want to mess with recalibrating the Innovate. I have not installed it yet. Wondering is it's better to put the sensor in front or after the muffler on the Springfield exhaust? Also, trying to decide whether to put the gauge in a vent hole or on the radio blank plate.

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#10
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 I have not installed it yet. Wondering is it's better to put the sensor in front or after the muffler on the Springfield exhaust?

 

Also, trying to decide whether to put the gauge in a vent hole or on the radio blank plate.

My Innovate is ahead of the Springfield muffler, welded in extra bung. You want the least opportunity for free air to be in your exhaust

system.

 

My gauge is eyeball directly in the normal gauge area. No distract, looking for gauge.


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#11
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Getting to a dyno is best especially initially but if you can't do that, shoot for about 12.7:1 at 6000 RPM on the track and you'll be in the ballpark.  


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#12
Jim Drago

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Hi All,

 

The title pretty much says it.  What are you using for AFR gauge and why?  I see a few Innovate recommendations and a few for AEM.  From what I understand the Innovate is slightly more accurate (1/10 of a point) but is that small margin of error going to make a difference.  Also, what is the O2 sensor controller and do I need it on my '99?

 

The AEM does not seem to have the controller box (unless it's built in).  Price wise that are competetive.

 

Lastly, what AFR are you shooting for at what RPM.  I know different cars will make power at different levels, but what is a good basic starting point?

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

Bruce

 

 

bruce

The innovate is junk. I have them in most of the cars we have. I have used a few AEM's but not enough history to share results. I put an Autometer in my new car, by far the best I have used so far. It is the ONLY one that is accurate that I have tested so far.  We use calibration gas on the dyno, it is specifically blended to read 13.0, we use it to test the dyno sensors.. All the innovates read 12.5-12.6, the aem read 12.7 and the autometer is exactly 13.0 as it should be. We will use  them from here on out, but not sure how long they last. The inovates also break all the time and do not hold up well at all.

Jim


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#13
Jamz14

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Jim,

 

I could have sworn that in another thread you reccomended 13.5 or so on the innovate. This is because you couldn't trust it to read close to the stoich. ideal of 14.7 I thought. Why settle in at 12.5 ? Would you be saying then that you are making better power with the AFR being a little rich?


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#14
bmarshall1

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Thanks for all the replies.

 

Jim, great specific information.  I was able to cancel the AEM and go with autometer.  I definitely plan on having the car dyno'd but until then I'd like to see where I am stock.



#15
Johnny D

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bruce

The innovate is junk. I have them in most of the cars we have. I have used a few AEM's but not enough history to share results. I put an Autometer in my new car, by far the best I have used so far. It is the ONLY one that is accurate that I have tested so far.  We use calibration gas on the dyno, it is specifically blended to read 13.0, we use it to test the dyno sensors.. All the innovates read 12.5-12.6, the aem read 12.7 and the autometer is exactly 13.0 as it should be. We will use  them from here on out, but not sure how long they last. The inovates also break all the time and do not hold up well at all.

Jim

 

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#16
Jamz14

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Jim,

 

I was wrong. I went back and searched the thread I recalled and your response was identical then.


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#17
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 The inovates also break all the time and do not hold up well at all.

Jim

Jim, other than the Innovate requires re-calibrate in free air out of the exhaust system, what does "break all the time" mean?  :noidea:

Having this "break" info is good for all that have the Innovate.

 

Thanks


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#18
Jim Drago

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Jim, other than the Innovate requires re-calibrate in free air out of the exhaust system, what does "break all the time" mean?  :noidea:
Having this "break" info is good for all that have the Innovate.
 
Thanks


The harness has a junction box/ converter.. It fails all the time. You then need a new unit. I have had a few bad out of the box. The calibration in free air also does not work. Even when calibrated by the book.. It reads off .3-.6 in what I feel is the wrong direction.. It reads richer than what the car is actually running. People tend to lean the car that is already leaner than indicated.
As I said, it is still in my 00 car and Craig's, but it is junk. The new ones do not require open air calibration.. Unfortunately they are also equally inaccurate and still junk. If you can't trust the gauge, you are better off not having it IMO

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#19
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I agree that the Innovate reads low. I haven't seen any failures on Ted's cars. The new style, as Jim said, doesn't require recalibration.

 

So as long as you know it reads low, you can still adjust AFR and account for the offset in the reading as compared to the dyno, which is what we've all been doing.

 

Haven't tried any of the others yet, but I've been happy with the Innovate as a relative indicator.


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#20
Jim Drago

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Jim,

 

I could have sworn that in another thread you reccomended 13.5 or so on the innovate. This is because you couldn't trust it to read close to the stoich. ideal of 14.7 I thought. Why settle in at 12.5 ? Would you be saying then that you are making better power with the AFR being a little rich?

 

 

None of the cars ( with legal computers) have flat a:f curves. The 96/97 and 01+ have pretty nice curves, but not completely flat.   So on our 99/00 cars we pick a point on the curve and measure our a:f ratio at that RPM. For us we use 6500 in fourth gear and shoot for about 12.5 at that point in the curve. Parts of the curve at at 13.5, but that ( for us anyway) is the best compromise

Jim 


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