15 replies to this topic

[rotcod66]

Good Morning,

I am just starting the build process, I bought a 96 m edition from the local tow yard. It was an impound, when i got it it had no key so i had a locksmith make me a key. come to find out the key was partially broken off in the ignition. Long story short, i managed to destroy that ignition switch trying to get the key out. i have since purchased a used ignition. the car turns over fine,tries to start but then dies, seems like no fuel. after a few times i do smell a faint sent of fuel but still no run. This car has the (factory?) Mazda alarm I am thinking it is now stuck in some no start mode. The little red lite is flasing continuously (Fast) HELP! I am pulling my hair out. I just want to get it running so I can turn around and start the tear down and build process. Does anyone know of this no start mode and or a go around? I would like to remove the alarm system when this is all done any way. I have searched for resets and ect on net and no answers yet. Any help or sugestions would be very much appriciated.

Dan

New guy

 

****Update, I checked spark and compression in all cylinders, all good, dealer confirmed by vin# that it came with factory Mazda alarm. There was no tech available today (Saturday) at dealer but parts guy very helpful. Still no run, seems like some kind of immobilizer, Has anyone removed the factory alarm from their car? I looks like it ties in with factory harness I don't see a easy disconnect. Does anyone know of a way to power the fuel pump It seems the alarm has killed power to the fuel pump.

Any input would be great!

Dan 

[Ron Alan]

Mazda dealer? Or you can try this guy...50/50 he will know what you are talking about! 

 

His number is at the top of the site...tell him Ron sent you.

 

http://www.haagperformance.com/

[Steve Scheifler]

Did you get the fuel pump jumpered? If not, look for the diagnostic connector near the left front shock tower and jump the FP as shown here;
http://www.rivercity...mod_signals.JPG

[rotcod66]

I just jumped the fuel pump like shown here, When i turn the key to start I do hear the pump come on now, I did not hear this when it was not jumped. The car still seems to do the same thing. It catches like it wants to start but then dies right away. I have plugged in scanners (Multiple types) and it will not read the car. it says to be sure the cable is connected and key is turned on. I dont know if the immobilizer can do this or if the ecu or something else is toasted now. It appears the ODBII connector only has three wires? I kinda thougt it woould have a bunch.

Steve thank you for that tip,

Ron I will try the guy in Martinez tomorrow. I used to live about a mile away from that locatiion.

Any other input would be greatly appriciated.

Now I am wondering why the scanner will not read the car either....

 

Scanner says

Comunication error

Make sure

the ignition is turned on

tester to vehicle cable is correct

check ground and power

check wiring and fuses

I did double check the scanner works on my toyota and it is working fine.

 

Dan

[RWP80000]

Dan,
Not at all familiar with the factory alarm and how it might interact to prevent your car from running. Also, have never used a scanner on our early 1.6 cars for diagnostic purposes.

 

That said, I just recently pulled the fuel pump module from a 2004 unit only to find the metal parts heavily rusted and the plastic filter sock in shreds. Have never seen any thing so bad and on one of the newest I have ever pulled apart. I attribute the corrosion and deterioration to the enthanol fuel blends used now. They have a high affinity for water much like brake fluid only worse. It sounds like your car may have been sitting for awhile and that could contribute to fuel system problems.

 

I would suggest pulling the pump module out of the tank (which is really easy to do if you don't have a hard top on and not that bad if you don't have your cage in yet).  The early cars have a drain plug in the bottom of the tank that makes it easy to drain the fuel out.  Pulling the module lets you look directly in the tank to see exactly what you are dealing with.  Making sure your tank internals are all at least looking good.  I would then suggest replacing the external  fuel filter located under the vehicle on the right (pass) rear side where the rear compartment panel kicks up (you will see the lines and metal can).  This should be done anyway as who knows the last time that was changed if ever. Most people building a car replace the fuel pump and filter out as a precaution so you are not wasting your money here. You should also consider getting your injectors cleaned or exchanged for a matched set but that can wait until later unless your final diagnostics steps lead you to the injectors.

 

Based on what you have already reported it sounds like you are getting familiar with jumping the fuel pump.  What you can do is hook in a test light off the relay output which feeds the fuel pump.  The light will tell you if have power to the pump when the car won't/stops running (as opposed stopping due to an inadequate supply of pressurized fuel at fuel rail/injectors.

 

 

[tom1977]

Have you tried unlocking the doors with the key? Factory alarm usually can be disarmed in this fashion

[mdavis]

In the 01 the key, immobilizer and ECU are all linked.  Threre's a ring on the ignition that links them all.  If they are not, then it'll do just as you described.

 

Not sure if that's the case in a factory alarmed 96.

[rotcod66]

I will look at fuel system soon, it does seem that something is shutting fuel and ignition down, even when i energize the fuel fump via jumping it, i can charge the fuel line (I assume due to its running) but i dont get more that a split second of run time. i tryed the door key thing but nothing. Remember the original ignition was ruined, I have no remote or original key, the door key was made by a looksmith so just metal key for doors and trunk, new ignition and black plastic factory key (sure doesnt look like a chiped key). I found a link about vw's and removing the stereo triggering the immobilizer or locking out the ODBII port so i plugged it back in but still the same. So other variables to think about, i figured no big deal when i bought the car so while i was waiting for a switch, I had removed the seats, stereo,center console,elect antena and of coarse all the steering wheel stuff to access the ignition switch. I have since plugged almost everything back in. It still has no seats or antena though.

Thank you for your input,

Dan

[davew]

Dan, take 3 steps back and diagnose the car rather than guessing.

 

The car needs 3 things, air fuel and spark at particular moments. Find out what you are missing. Check for spark, check for fuel pressure, quantity and quality, check for noid (injector turned on) along with compression and leakdown tests.

 

You may have something as simple as a plugged fuel filter, but untill you diagnose, you have no idea.

 

FYI, you will get no valuable info from a "no start" perspective from a scan tool on a 96 car.

 

Dave

[rotcod66]

Thanks Dave,

btw I ordered your book last week, looking forward to the read.

I did pull plugs and crank over, had spark in all four.

checked compression in all four

Fuel? Yes i jumped FP relay and hear it running when key turned all the way to start but not when rocked back into run position. How do I check for fuel pressure? sorry if that is a stupid question but as i said i am new to this. I did try a little starting fluid and the start results did seem the same.

I will r&r air cleaner tonight and check for restrictions, and check for fuel pressure.

I am hoping dealer can shed somme light on if there is any immobilizer in the year with this factory alarm.

Thanks again

Dan

[rotcod66]

Ok, back at it, following Dave's advise, let's see, got spark YES. Got compression YES, I did not check fuel pressure tonight (no gauge) hopefully tomorrow, I did recheck fuel pump relay (good),put fuel in system to be sure gauge was accurate, pulled fuel line at manifold to see if fuel came out when fuel pump turned on, YES got fuel. I will bring home pressue gauge tomorrow, The weird thing is I only hear FP when key is turned to start(crank) but I do not hear it run when the key is turned to ON. I have held the key for 30+ seconds and pump does not stop running, I thought it would shut off when pressure built up. Pulled air duct off at injector and sprayed starting fluid in, throttle wide open is runs a split second longer but still shuts down. I still question something to do with alarm and or lack of factory key/ignition.

Last I am not sure what this means Dave,
"check for noid (injector turned on)"
How? What?

Thanks again, Dan



The car needs 3 things, air fuel and spark at particular moments. Find out what you are missing. Check for spark, check for fuel pressure, quantity and quality, check for noid (injector turned on) along with compression and leakdown tests.

[Ron Alan]

"Noid" is a little tool that you can plug into the injector plug(I think)and when you crank the motor it will light up/blink if you are getting signal to injector. If you are not I think you then check cam angle sensor and or ecu? Dave can correct me if I'm way off here...

[rotcod66]

http://www.engine-mi...g-a-noid-light/

Ok learned something else new. "Noid light"
Sound easy to check, fuel pressure and injector signal next.
Thank you Ron and Dave

[rotcod66]

UPDATE!

Wow what a learning process! I have learned a lot of stuff about parts of this car i was not planing on. I am sure this is just the begining. So tonight I brought home the noid lite and fuel pressure gauge. Fuel pressure is good and holds, I checked noid in all four cylinders and I am getting a signal to all. All day i have been thinking about checking these things and hoping for some answers good or bad and all checks good! This is just like everything else I have checked. Soooo looming in the back of my mind, why is it that when i turn key to ON i dont get any check engine light or hear the FP engage? Hmmmm Now i remember a u-tube video about disassembly and cleaning of the ignition switch (electrical part).The more i thought about it i remember when i removed this from the original ignition switch (Key) it looked partially separated when i set i on the work bench, When i reassembled i just squeezed it back together and screwed it back to the ignition switch and never thought about it again. Ding ding ding! What if the internals are not lined up correctly, maybe this woulds cause some misalignment so the key position would not be correct. so upon disassembly i found two tiny springs floating around inside the switch. Finally something that is a miss! I cleaned all internals and reassembled and installed. Turn key to ON and what do you know, dash lights, check engine light and more, OMG coould this be it? YES YES YES it starts! Finally after all this diagnostics it went full circle back to the first part of the car I disassembled. Well thanks to many U-yube videos, tips from Dave and Ron, On line service manuals and even the local Mazda dealer I can start with the process of building my car. I hope this info may help someone else in the future with a non run issue.

Dan

[Ron Alan]

How often does it come back to the last thing you monkeyed with or in that area?? Nice job...I knew it wasnt the alarm

[Tom Hampton]

How often does it come back to the last thing you monkeyed with or in that area?? Nice job...I knew it wasnt the alarm

Pretty much every damn time. So often that it should ALWAYS be the first thing anyone mentions or checks.