37 replies to this topic

[WarmShoe]

I'd like to get safety gear once and get it right. After some research I've got a ton of questions. Advice for any/all would be appreciated!!!

SFI goes up to 3.2A/20 but it appears three-layer suits only go to /5

Is two layer /5 equivalent to three layer /5?

Suits with same ratings at 2x price. Just marketing/brands or some functional differences?

Are white/light-colored suits cooler (reflecting radiant heat)?

Does suit size have to be larger to accommodate underwear and cool suit?

SCCA and NASA have underwear optional but sure seems like good idea! Do you roast with suit and underwear in the summer? Is a cool suit pretty much imperative, even for sprints?

Is there a functional difference with gloves with better fire protection (i.e. two-layer gloves more difficult to get steering wheel feel)?

Nomex vs. Carbon-X fabric (especially in underwear/socks). Either better at wicking moisture, transferring body heat out?

Are all suits pretty much washing machine washable (hard to find this info)?

How can you order all this stuff online without trying it all on?!?! Seems like a crapshoot.

Saferacer and/or Wesco good sources online?

Any personal recommendations: stuff you love/hate about your equipment?

[Mike Collins]

Where do you live?

Saferacer supports this site, but there are others that you can shop online. I have used Saferacer with success.

More money for same level of protection normally means it is lighter and breaths better.

You REALLY need to try some stuff on, or plan on shipping stuff back to the supplier.

Some helmets fit me great some others in the same size feel terrible. Same with Suits.

The best advice I have for you is that if you have a $5.00 head wear a $5.00 helmet (gear ect...) You get what you pay for.

[Lance Snyder]

You are going to want and need a HANS, want for saving your life... need because I suspect every major sanctioning body will require it real soon (if they don't already). Cool suit is going to be important if you intend to run in warmer climates, even if it is cooler you will still get very heated during the session. If you start doing 2 to 3 hours of track time per weekend you will want to keep personal heat cycles to a reduced level.

[Kyle Burkhardt]

I wouldn't buy without trying on. Find a shop near you they can answer all your questions too. Generally, price equates to comfort--primarily weight. As I recall, you ultimately need 3 layers, either a 3 layer suit, or a two layer with undies. I don't think color plays much of a role. I have a black suit and used to drive a black car with black interior. I don't think I was any hotter than the next guy. They are machine washable. There's special soaps, but many just use woolite. Treat em like delicates.

[dstevens]

It's not about "layers", it's about ratings. It's not the number of layers, it's the duration of protection. That's why with a 1 rated suit they want you to have undies to add to the protection. The 15 and 20 rated suits are for drags. You won't use those. I race in a 5 rated two piece. Any suit with the same rating will protect you the same way. The rating, among other things is the resistance to fire. With a one piece, even when I'm not a fat bastard, I need them custom made. I usually go to the Impact trailer when they come to town for the drags.

Carbon X is Chapman's version of flame retardant material, Nomex is Dupont's. There is also Proban (Rhodia) for the low cost suits.

The important thing is to get something comfortable, that fits.

[luckymiata76]

Jon-I see you're from Grand Rapids. Take a road trip down to Lane Automotive(www.laneautomotive.com) in Watervliet, MI. They're on I94, exit 42ish, just east of where I196 hits I94. They're mainly a circle-track supplier, but they have a HUGE stock of safety gear, other equipment and their prices are very competitive. Plus, like others have said, you can try stuff on. I know they are open Saturday's.

[Keith Novak]

If you find gear you can by once and never again, let me know what you get.

As stated above, you definately want to try stuff on, especially helmets. Unless you have a soft pliable head, you'll find some fit well and others are very uncomfortable.

For gloves, I've found sizes vary too. My first G-Force gloves fit comfortably but 6 months later and I put a hole through one finger. My cheap Crow gloves I bought at the track when my others died fit very tight but stretched out and are built like a tank. Alpine Stars fit as tight as my Crow's so I thought they'd stretch out but a seam blew out about the 4th time I put them on...all the same size.

In shoes, Europeans brands tend to have a narrower profile with American one's wider. You're also wearing socks that are as thin as dress socks, so you don't want them fitting loose and sloppy. Cheap nomex socks are terrible BTW. Try to find nice ones. Your feet will thank you even if you never need the safety of the nomex.

Nomex and Carbon-X are 2 different things. Nomex, a brand name for aramid fibers, is a very strong fire resistant synthetic fabric. Carbon-X and similar materials have a coating that expands like those 4th of July snakes when burned so it can provide more insulation when you're on fire, and less when you're not to help keep you safe but still cool. The Carbon-X stuff I've bought stretches out pretty badly and I find it itchy. I don't know how effective it is when it's not directly exposed to flame, like when it's under your suit since it has to get very hot before it does it's thing.

Suits can get very hot, especially if the race gets neutralized due to an incident and you're baking in the car with no air moving or driving behind a pace car due to an incident. SFI 3.5 is the minimum to not require protective undies. I like wearing a turtleneck regardless because otherwise your neck is very exposed. My next suit will be FIA rated which is almost as stringent as SFI 5, but not quite. I also prefer the pants style cuffs at the bottom rather than the formula style skinny elastic ankles. They pants syle ones still have that tight cuff on the inside (mine do at least) but more material draped over that to protect your relatively exposed ankles (and I think they look less dorky but hey, that's just me.)

[Bench Racer]

You are going to want and need a HANS, want for saving your life... need because I suspect every major sanctioning body will require it real soon (if they don't already).

Not picking on anyone, just stating a fact.

SCCA does not & will not for the foreseeable future require a HANS. For year 2012 SCCA will require a SFI 38.1 certified H&N restraint of which there are several. NASA requires a HANS.

[RacerX]

... They are machine washable. There's special soaps, but many just use woolite. Treat em like delicates.

Good advise. Additionally I was cautioned by someone in the industry not to use Clorox Bleach on any Nomex products.

[juliancates]

Not picking on anyone, just stating a fact.

SCCA does not & will not for the foreseeable future require a HANS. For year 2012 SCCA will require a SFI 38.1 certified H&N restraint of which there are several. NASA requires a HANS.

Huh? NASA requires an SFI 38.1 rated head and neck restraint. It does not require a HANS brand device. I personally use a DefNder. Here's the applicable section from the CCR:

15.17.8 Head and Neck Restraint

Use of a head and neck restraint system or device, carrying an SFI 38.1 certification label, is mandatory for all drivers as of July 2, 2008. References and information can be found in “Appendix D,” section #29.0 of the CCR. Additionally, HANS brand devices with FIA 8858-2002 or FIA 8858-2010 certification labels are acceptable in lieu of SFI 38.1 labels.

[KentCarter]

Looking at suits around the pits and talking to drivers, I have learned:
1. Not all /5 suits are equal in comfort. A low-end, big-name /5 suit will be may be less comfortable than a value-priced suit from a value-priced maker. The G-Force 545 is a good example. I bought it SEVEN years ago as a temporary suit thinking I would upgrade to a nice Sparco-ish once I was sure I was going to like racing. I have never upgraded, although I do admire the nice looks of the fancier suits. My 545 is lighter and cooler than most of the mid-priced Sparco/AlpineStars suits I see and in seven years, the zipper hasn't failed (a common issue on many suits). It's faded a bit, but I wash in the washing machine every night after a race. I have never met a driver who didn't like his/her 545. Perhaps someone will chime in and tell me they don't like their 545.

2. Heat is your enemy. The suit is designed to protect you against what has proven to be a very rare event in SM: fire. A more common cause of heat injury in racing is 'heat injury', more often called 'heat stroke'. I would venture to guess, but have no data, that more drivers are killed in amateur road-racing by elevations in body temperature from heat stress than by burns from fire. This is why we don't wear /20 suits: they are designed to be worn for a few minutes, not for an hour or so. A high-quality two-layer /5 suit and a cool suit are good investments for your everyday safety, especially if you race south of the Mason-Dixon line.

3. Again, I have no data, but my guess is that a loose-fitting suit will protect you against thermal injury in a fire better than a snug one. It may not help you show of your stellar physique and get the chicas into your RV after the race, but it may keep you safer.

4. The only gloves I've ever had that were worth a damn were some old Simpson high-gauntlet ones that are no longer made. My high-dollar AlpineStars are falling apart, something I see all over the paddock. So did my Sparcos. It's too bad my Simpsons had to be cut from my hand after a wreck.

5. Don't overlook the padding of your car when you consider safety. When you get hit hard, your body slams into all kinds of things in the car: pedals, ignition keys, shifters, window net mounting tabs.... and so on.

[Bench Racer]

Huh? NASA requires an SFI 38.1 rated head and neck restraint. It does not require a HANS brand device. I personally use a DefNder. Here's the applicable section from the CCR:

15.17.8 Head and Neck Restraint

Use of a head and neck restraint system or device, carrying an SFI 38.1 certification label, is mandatory for all drivers as of July 2, 2008. References and information can be found in “Appendix D,” section #29.0 of the CCR. Additionally, HANS brand devices with FIA 8858-2002 or FIA 8858-2010 certification labels are acceptable in lieu of SFI 38.1 labels.

My point was that there is more than the HANS which does require a secondary device to reduce the lateral loads. I deserve your response because I was going by word of mouth & not written rules. At present I use a Isaac & for 2012 I will procure a Defnder.

[Mike Colangelo]

Somebody mentioned the importance of staying cool. Cheaper suits tend to be heavier and bulkier and hotter compared to the higher end suits. That's a big reason for the price difference.

My G-Force 505 driving suit (which is quite popular among club racers) is a good example of this cheaper heavier and hotter suit. It's a good suit and its SFI 3-2A/5 rating means that I'm not required to wear fire resistant underwear but it can get a bit hot during the summer months. In lieu of fire resistant underwear (making me even hotter), I wear a cotton t-shirt and boxers (there, now the whole world knows!!! ).

The important thing to know about cotton undergarments is that they are cool and won't melt onto your skin in the event of a fire. I strongly advise against wearing undergarments made of polyester or other synthetic materials such as the UnderArmour shirts. They'll melt onto your skin when exposed to high enough heat sources (e.g., car fire).

[juliancates]

My point was that there is more than the HANS which does require a secondary device to reduce the lateral loads. I deserve your response because I was going by word of mouth & not written rules. At present I use a Isaac & for 2012 I will procure a Defnder.

I hope my response didn't come across as critical, as I didn't intend for it to be. Just wanted to point out that NASA requires the 38.1 spec, not necessarily HANS as a brand name device. There are other options out there, and one should do the research and buy a device that works for them. (Hopefully without ever having to actually find out how well it works...) I've been happy with my choice of H&N restraint. There are a few epic threads out there extolling the virtues of the various devices, so I won't go into that here, lest this turn into a 50-page religious war.

[Mike Collins]

I hope my response didn't come across as critical, as I didn't intend for it to be. Just wanted to point out that NASA requires the 38.1 spec, not necessarily HANS as a brand name device. There are other options out there, and one should do the research and buy a device that works for them. (Hopefully without ever having to actually find out how well it works...) I've been happy with my choice of H&N restraint. There are a few epic threads out there extolling the virtues of the various devices, so I won't go into that here, lest this turn into a 50-page religious war.

+1

[Lance Snyder]

I stand(well sit) corrected.. and we haven't had a 50 page religious war on the new site yet so maybe it's time to break it in?

[john mueller]

Just marketing/brands or some functional differences? Get one that fits well and meets the burn time requirement for the sanctioning bodies you plan to be racing in. I recommend lengthening burn time with quality flame retardant undergarments. IMO a baggy suit gets bunched-up in places you don't want it to & can become uncomfortable and may get hung-up on a hasty exit, buying a tight one is short sided, you'll want this thing to fit for years. Brand names mean jack when they are burning - choose one what fits and gives you time to get out unharmed. Once you identify size and rating then pick one you will stand to see photos of yourself in for a few years...

Are white/light-colored suits cooler (reflecting radiant heat)? I did not find this to be the case while in the car, but out in the sun yes.

Does suit size have to be larger to accommodate underwear and cool suit? If getting a cool suit, skip the 'cotton shirt' and get one made from a quality flame retardant undergarment. Get measured wearing a tee shirt and you'll be okay.

SCCA and NASA have underwear optional but sure seems like good idea! Do you roast with suit and underwear in the summer? Is a cool suit pretty much imperative, even for sprints? The FIA says that fireproof underwear and undergarments can add as much as 50% to the time to burn... I'm gonna guess that skin grafts are really uncomfortable... So get some Fire resistant underwear and a headsock/balaclava . Then get a Cool-Suit and be cool too.

Is there a functional difference with gloves with better fire protection (i.e. two-layer gloves more difficult to get steering wheel feel)? Get multi-layer with soft material on the grip. I prefer long gauntlet to cover any possibility of exposed skin.

Nomex vs. Carbon-X fabric (especially in underwear/socks). Either better at wicking moisture, transferring body heat out? I like CarbonX because it is an inherently flame resistant. It is warmer than Nomex but if you're rockin the cool-suit you wont care much.

Are all suits pretty much washing machine washable (hard to find this info)? I machine wash with cold water and no soap/detergent once a season (socks and balaclava every aft every event). Line Dry ONLY, never put any of this stuff in a dryer. Then get it dry-cleaned in the off-season.

How can you order all this stuff online without trying it all on?!?! Seems like a crapshoot. Undergarments, shoes & gloves are online slam dunks - I've tried buddys Suits and Helmets then ordered online. Measure three or four times, buy once.

Saferacer and/or Wesco good sources online? SafeRacer are great grassroots supporters as are many other online vendors. Some of the smaller vendors might be flexible and provide outstanding personal service... So, I strongly suggest sending an email or calling a few to see if they can put together a package deal just for you... I mean after all you'll be dropping a decent amount of change, get the right stuff for you and be happy.

Any personal recommendations: stuff you love/hate about your equipment?

• Oakley CarbonX socks will NOT last a season but their under tops & bottoms will last for years and years.
• Spend more money than you want to on your helmet and buy at least one tinted shield.
• The new Bell SA2010 Helmets are badass - I highly recommend them.
• Don't work on the car wearing any of this expensive and important stuff.
• Between sessions let the stuff air out & dry. I use clip hangers (Target kids clothes hanger are perfect) for everything and a plastic jacket hanger for my suit.

[KentCarter]

It appears that Bell has sold out and the helmets are now made in China. Not sure it matters to you, but it does to me.

[Keith Novak]

It appears that Bell has sold out and the helmets are now made in China. Not sure it matters to you, but it does to me.

I didn't realize they sold out their helmets too. I found out about the suits when I tried to get mine warrantied.

[Brandon]

Jon,
I jumped into this fray late summer '09 and completed my first season of racing in 2010 (2 schools & 8 races) and not to add more noise to the conversation but all the above replies are 100% on-point and are good advice; measure 3,4,5 times (trying on items) and buy once.

Some items of note that I'd buy first if starting out again (to keep me safer & cooler from the get-go):

• H&N restraint from day 1
• Turtleneck undershirt
• CoolSuit/FAST from day 1
• Sparco Nomex Ice underwear (some wicking plus a menthol-like cooling of your skin)
• Double-hole balaclava (maintains position better when putting on helmet)

My own personal gear consist of all Sparco (suit, gloves, shoes) with Bell underwear (sorry, they no longer make it): the suit fits somewhat loosely (not tight anywhere) but does have a tendency to bunch up in some uncomfortable places if I don't situate it properly (think about the crotch belt on a 6-point), the shoes are narrower than sneakers but that's a good thing (pedal feel/control), my gloves are still going strong (don't remember the model) as I begin my 3rd year/2nd race season with them.

I always wear underwear regardless of the temperature and with the cool shirt it's even more of an incentive to do so - additional protection while staying cool.

Oh, and buy two sets of underwear (top, bottoms, socks, & balaclava) - you'll thank me on that second day of the race weekend.

You asked about maintaining the gear and for that there's two aspects to remember: dirt & odor.
Dirt - annual washing with a Nomex-compatible detergent (I use Molecule's products) with a regular spot cleaning using the same company's spot spray. And don't work on the car while wearing it!

Odor - Shock Doctor. There has been no other item in my gear bag that has (in my opinion) prolonged the life of my gear than the Shock Dr. By using their bags & blowers I've never had smelly gear to put on (suit, gloves, & helmet get the treatment between days) and it keeps me from washing things too frequently (IMO) if I remember to not work on the car while wearing it.

Good luck with everything and stay safe!
Brandon