17 replies to this topic

[Jerry Cabe]

Allright, I'm looking for some wisdom from the collective Pro Motor builders (Bob, Jim, Mike, etc).

With a Mazda crate motor, is there anything you would recommend looking at or doing prior to installing into the car?

Also, is the conventional break in procedure still to change oil, install, and then run it like you stole it? I had planned to do some dyno testing prior to racing; is this OK?

Thanks in advance (all other smart-a$$ comments will be ignored).

[Mike Collins]

Put the engine in the car. Put conventional oil in it. Run it at least one heat cycle (make sure fan comes on and goes off and that nothing leaks). Then change oil with conventional oil again. Go run it like you stole it. Run it hard for at least 10 sessions of no less than 20 minutes each or until you get about 4 hours of run time on it. Then go to synthetic oil. It should last a long time and be very serviceable.

[Glenn]

Put the engine in the car. Put conventional oil in it. Run it at least one heat cycle (make sure fan comes on and goes off and that nothing leaks). Then change oil with conventional oil again. Go run it like you stole it. Run it hard for at least 10 sessions of no less than 20 minutes each or until you get about 4 hours of run time on it. Then go to synthetic oil. It should last a long time and be very serviceable.

+1

[FTodaro]

Put the engine in the car. Put conventional oil in it. Run it at least one heat cycle (make sure fan comes on and goes off and that nothing leaks). Then change oil with conventional oil again. Go run it like you stole it. Run it hard for at least 10 sessions of no less than 20 minutes each or until you get about 4 hours of run time on it. Then go to synthetic oil. It should last a long time and be very serviceable.

Mike I was told to do the same thing except not even run it much after i put it in the car until I get it to the track and run it hard right out of the box to take advantage of the cross hatching on the cylinder walls at break-in

Also on the oil I am using Brad penn's break-in oil then I was going to go to there Racing oil on the first oil change which is a synthetic blend with lots of zink in it. any reason why I should not go to the synthetic blend vs. conventional on that first oil change??

[William Bonsell]

I'm feeling lazy this morning.....so best source and price for a Mazda crate motor??

And then I can re-visit this break in procedure site.

[Mike Collins]

OK, remember this is only my opinion and experience with Crate motors (I have had a ton of them).

I put in conventional oil and let idle just long enough to heat cycle the car and check for leaks. I want to make sure EVERYTHING works before I run it like I stole it. I have more than once heard or seen someone do damage to a brand new motor for failing to check that everything works as it should.

I then change the oil after that first heat cycle. That oil blends with assembly lube and picks up any particles left over from the build. It is a good time to change again before running hard.

[FTodaro]

OK, remember this is only my opinion and experience with Crate motors (I have had a ton of them).

I put in conventional oil and let idle just long enough to heat cycle the car and check for leaks. I want to make sure EVERYTHING works before I run it like I stole it. I have more than once heard or seen someone do damage to a brand new motor for failing to check that everything works as it should.

I then change the oil after that first heat cycle. That oil blends with assembly lube and picks up any particles left over from the build. It is a good time to change again before running hard.

MIke what is the wisdom of staying away from synthetic for awhile on a new motor and in that light, is it ok for me to use a synthetic blend with lots of zink in it?

[Mike Collins]

I think that synthetics are too slick for proper break in. Some high end "racing" oils now make break in specific blends but maybe I am just too cheap and old school, I just don't see a reason or value in spending more than I have to for the same result.

[iambhooper]

the first time, just run walmart's cheap o oil... like $2.00/qt. let it heat up (like Mike said) and then change the oil. you could do this twice, if you wanted, but then just run your oil of choice. i use a zinc adative with Mobile 1.

hoop

[dstevens]

I think that synthetics are too slick for proper break in. Some high end "racing" oils now make break in specific blends but maybe I am just too cheap and old school, I just don't see a reason or value in spending more than I have to for the same result.

Those oils are made for high compression, high rpm engines with flat tappets. Even with head work the Miata engines aren't in that category. What I do is run whatever the Autozone special with 5 qts and some zinc additive with the filter from the package to clean the build. Then I run over the counter oil with NAPA Gold filters. Wix makes the NAPA Gold line.

[davew]

I start the car using Rotella diesal oil. I have used this for 20 years on every new engine. Several top engine builders have recomended this oil. It is relatively cheap, available in gallon containers at any auto parts or Farm supply type store. After completely warming the engine, I change oil and filter. Again with Rotella.

Since I have my own dyno, I do the next steps on the dyno. You can do the same thing on the track. I spend 20 minutes (equivalent to one session) staying around 5000 rpm. Never hold the throttle at one point. Vary the throttle even on the straights. This creates a vacuum in the crank case and seats the rings better. Then check oil-water-etc. Then do the same thing using 6000 rpm as a top speed. Always pay special attention to smells, vibrations and guages. Then drive the poop out of it.

Change the oil and filter after the first event.

Synthetic oils will not allow the rings to seal properly on a fresh engine.

I never use anything but a RACE oil. Street oils are not designed for high RPM use and should be avoided. Pick your favorite brand, but make sure it says RACE on the label

Dave

[FTodaro]

Thanks for the explainable Dave. I have the car filled right now with Brad Penn break-in oil I assume that it will work for the first session. I am going to go to a DE lapping day and do the run sessions as you described and then bring it home and change the oil with rotella. will likely do a race weekend on it and change for the third time.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I start the car using Rotella diesal oil. I have used this for 20 years on every new engine. Several top engine builders have recomended this oil. It is relatively cheap, available in gallon containers at any auto parts or Farm supply type store. After completely warming the engine, I change oil and filter. Again with Rotella.

Since I have my own dyno, I do the next steps on the dyno. You can do the same thing on the track. I spend 20 minutes (equivalent to one session) staying around 5000 rpm. Never hold the throttle at one point. Vary the throttle even on the straights. This creates a vacuum in the crank case and seats the rings better. Then check oil-water-etc. Then do the same thing using 6000 rpm as a top speed. Always pay special attention to smells, vibrations and guages. Then drive the poop out of it.

Change the oil and filter after the first event.

Synthetic oils will not allow the rings to seal properly on a fresh engine.

I never use anything but a RACE oil. Street oils are not designed for high RPM use and should be avoided. Pick your favorite brand, but make sure it says RACE on the label

Dave

Can this be done sitting in a parking lot or does the engine need to be under load to brake in?

[davew]

To do it properly, you need to be under load.

Under decel, there is a vacuum created in the crankcase this will actually pull the rings down in the piston grooves. Creating an even better seal and quicker seating of the rings.

Dry sump engines actually run an extra stage of scavenging to purposely create this vacuum as it creates more power

Dave

[dstevens]

Rotella is a pretty popular break in oil in these parts. Over at Gibbs there is a good primer on the difference between SAE street oil and race oil. http://joegibbsdrive...l101/index.html It's the trade show schpeel they give, ported to the Web.

That said, high mileage, junk yard swaps like mine aren't going to see any appreciable performance or longevity issues using street oil as long as you don't burn it and keep a regular drain interval. Older engines have greater journal clearances and need a higher viscosity oil for maintain pressure because of the wear of the parts. OTOH, had I a pro level build and tune the use of a racing specific oil would be a worthy investment.

[Jerry Cabe]

Put the engine in the car. Put conventional oil in it. Run it at least one heat cycle (make sure fan comes on and goes off and that nothing leaks). Then change oil with conventional oil again. Go run it like you stole it. Run it hard for at least 10 sessions of no less than 20 minutes each or until you get about 4 hours of run time on it. Then go to synthetic oil. It should last a long time and be very serviceable.

Thanks for the input Mike. But I think you forgot the important step about only running it on Sheetz fuel.

[davew]

Very good series of charts. Obviously written by an engineer. But it justifies what I have been saying for years. Do not use a street oil in a race car. The additive packages are different and are not compatable.

I spent about an hour a few years ago talking with a sales rep from a major race oil company. This is what he explained.

Synthetic oil is from dead dinosaurs. It still comes out of the ground. It is the best dead dinosaurs. Oil has different size moecules. Some are like golf balls, some are like baseballs and some are like basketballs. Put the bucket of balls on the floor and put a piece of plywood on top of them. The basketballs do all the work. What synthetic oil does is seperate the different size balls (molecules) so that the work is done by more of the balls.

If you talk to the Joe Gibbs guys, they do not rate their oils with the normal 10w-30 type of system. They recomend their oils be chosen based on bearing clearances. If you have big bearing clearances, you need basketball sized molecules. Tight bearings require golfballs. This actually makes sense to me.

That is what I know
Dave

[Scottie]

Dave, excellent run down. Thanks for the info.

I currently run 10w30 (pennzoil)dino oil, not synthetic. My motor is the stock 1.6 motor with 125k on the clock. Is it safe/okay to switch it up to synthetic then? or keep running what the motor is used to?