14 replies to this topic

[Owen Schefer]

Anyone having issues running Hawk DTC-60 in the front and DTC-30 in the rear on a 1.8?.  I have an ITA car vs a SM but for the most part the same general build.  I have now had at least 5 sets of DTC-30 in the rear where the pad material releases from the backing plate.  It generally happens well before the vent groove is gone.  The pad seems to crack along the vent groove and then 1/2 to all the pad material falls off.  I generally find out this happened as I brake hard into turn one at summit point and end up spinning off.  It has cost me a few tires now as well as a podium.   The separation seems to be a complete release as there is noting left on the backing plate - just clean metal on one have and 1/2 a pad on the other half.   I  attached a picture of an old set that did this and will get a picture of the latest ones posted as well.  you can see one pad released the material completely and the other just half the material.

 

I really like the way the car brakes when the pads hold together but I have yet for have a singe set wear down to the point the old blues would go to.  I have tried running with and without hardware, changed the calipers, etc.   I have emailed hawk before and the sent a replacement set.  I emailed them again and will see what they say.  I am concerned with the safety of the pad vs a replacement.  

 

Should I be using a different compound, doing something differently with installation, checking other components?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Attached Files

•  20141011_113435.jpg   236.47KB   1 downloads

[FTodaro]

I have ran the 60/30 combination, with out problems. I had one fail, but it was due to a bearing failing and taking out the rotor. It' could be a bad lot, or you have some other issue.

[Neil O]

Let me guess it's drivers side rear pad?  It's the gators at summit turn 10.  I use DTC's 60/30 as well.  I'd say 50% do that when they get to the grove.  I just change them early.  

 

Just be glad your not snapping caliper pins..  

 

Hope that helps

 

Neil  

[Owen Schefer]

Thanks for the replys - its been both sides.  This past weekend it was the drivers rear.  The other 4 sets I know at least one was passenger side, the other 3 I can't remember.  I just hate to spend the extra money on the DTC-30 (as I think they were more than blues) then have to change them before they were fully worn.  I was wondering if we were overheating them causing the bonding agent to release or something like that.  I was thinking to trying to put some heat strips back there to see what temps they are getting to and then check the heat range of the pad. 

[Waterboy]

I have had the same problem.  I change the pads when they are at about 50% because I don't like the feel of pedal when they are below that.  I still only go thru I believe two maybe three sets of rears in a season.  Doing that I have never had the problem.

[Neil O]

I run with the rattle clips but, still have the same problem as you.  Ran Cobalts for a while and had the same issue but, not as often.

 

If you figure something out, let us know.   

[chris haldeman]

I agree with the others. Change them earlier. I have seen that same failure in multiple manufacturers pads especially at tracks with gators.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Williams just had that issue on nearly new rear pads at gingerman so its a hawk issue not a pad thickness issue

[Mark]

We're run the DTC's in various combinations for 3 years now. No failures to date with either 30's or 60's but we are changing pads out when they get near 50% wear generally. 

[davew]

We see this more at Road America than we do at Blackhawk. Even though Blackhawk is considered very hard on brakes. My opinion is that the vibrations from the gators followed by severe cooling on the long straights makes the pad brittle. Given enough regularity and the friction material fatigues and breaks.

 

Seems to happen to all brands. running the anti-rattle clips seems to help.

 

dave

[Speedycrw]

Kyle is right, I had the same thing happen to me this past weekend.  I have been running DTC 60s in front and 30s in the rear.  I had been running 60s front and blues in the rear for the last 3-4 years.  Just switched to 30s in the rear this year and seem to like the "feel" a little better. 

 

The difference in my failure was that the ENTIRE pad surface let go from the backing plate(passenger rear), resulting in pedal to the floor in a braking zone!  Brake pressure came back with pumping as the pads were nearly new and the piston didn't push out, but needless to say, I wasn't really pushing the car that hard after that(not knowing exactly what happened), just braking WELL before braking points to finish the race afterwards. 

 

After the failure I double checked the caliper bracket bolts(all tight), caliper top pin(just fine), and rear bearing(no play whatsoever), simply seems like the pad material decided to leave the backing plate. The pads had been put on the car on Friday and had one qualifying session and one race, plus about 3/4 of the Sunday race as well before letting go.  This is the first time this has ever happened to me with hawk pads.  I have had some crumble a little as they neared 1/4-3/8 of original thickness, but NEVER seen this before.  ???? 

[Owen Schefer]

I emailed hawk a couple times about this has anyone else contacted them.  Seems alot of people are having the issue.  While a few people say they have seen it on other pads in the 16 years I have been racing it is only these that have done it to me.  I am thinking about going back to blues or to carbotechs to try them again.

[Alberto]

I'm curious if this was recent and whether you bought your pads from Mazda Motorsports.

 

The last set of Hawk DTC pads that I got from Mazda were total shit.  There is no way the compound was the DTC compound regardless of what was stamped on there.  Reported back to Mazda Motorsports a few months ago and have yet to hear back from Steve...  

 

I wound up switching to the Carbotech 10f 8r and they feel very similar in behavior to the Hawk DTCs.  Next time I'm going with the 12f/10r b/c I'd like more bit than the 10/8.  The 10/8 doesn't feel it has quite as much bite as the DTC60s.  The 12/10 should be better for RR and Hoosiers according to what the Carbotech people said.

[fotostars]

No issues using 60/30 for the past 3 years. Though the soft pedal feel comes in when the rears are after 50%, I just change them...

[Owen Schefer]

Alberto - the last failure happened last weekend at Summit Pt WV going into T1.  I generally get the pads from hawkdirect.com which I think is where this one came from but ones I purchased locally have done the same so I don't think it is the supplier.  I have yet to have a set of DTC-30 last till the vent groove is gone (my blues and blacks easily went that low).  They always fall apart before then or I have to change then at 50% or less.  I did contact hawk about this and sent them a set back to examine,  they did replace one set free of charge which was very nice of them but my question is why do hey do this.  Seems a race pad should not regularly fall apart when there is 50% of the pad remaining.  The hawk blues and blacks I had never had the issue.