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Road America Majors July 25-26th Smack


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#21
FTodaro

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Tom first off, your 1.8 was competitive this weekend, again, you and Josh ran the fastest laps of the race. 

 

Regarding the waived off start. I have been through a few of those, If the the green is never displayed on the start then the restart should be two by two. If they do not send out a pace car then as you come around to the start finish you line up again and give it a go.

 

So they should have been showing double yellow at all stations meaning the race never started.  if the green fly's then goes to yellow i think that would be a single yellow flag all stations then you its single file start.

 

One of the officials can chime in but that is what i remember from when we got three shots at it one time.


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#22
Tom Sager

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Tom first off, your 1.8 was competitive this weekend, again, you and Josh ran the fastest laps of the race. 

 

Regarding the waived off start. I have been through a few of those, If the the green is never displayed on the start then the restart should be two by two. If they do not send out a pace car then as you come around to the start finish you line up again and give it a go.

 

So they should have been showing double yellow at all stations meaning the race never started.  if the green fly's then goes to yellow i think that would be a single yellow flag all stations then you its single file start.

 

One of the officials can chime in but that is what i remember from when we got three shots at it one time.

My car was crap in Saturday's race but the problem was found this morning, no fault of the car.  The car was very good today.  Power-wise it is still just a tick off the NB cars on the hills and longer 5th gear runs.  Bottom RPM range of any gear is not a happy place for it in comparison to the NB's.  

 

There was some very good close driving among the top 5 both days.  Close and competitive.

 

Here's another GCR section on aborted starts.  Still falls short IMO of explaining the procedure clearly and concisely. In driver's meeting they almost always talk about starts but we never or rarely ever hear about what to do after a waive off.  

 

6.5.4. An Aborted Start A. The Starter will abort the start by displaying no flag and shaking his head in the negative if the field is not in good order, or if some drivers have improved their positions by moving out of line more than half a car width or by passing prior to the waving of the green flag. This advises the drivers to proceed on another pace lap. Drivers raise one hand to confirm that the start is aborted. B. If the race is not started, another pace lap will be run. Depending on conditions, the pace car may overtake the field and resume its function. The front row drivers must be advised that the pace car may return to its position for the additional pace lap if there is no start. C. Any additional pace lap(s) following aborted start(s) are under double standing yellow flags at all stations, and are scored as race laps. Timing starts when the pole car crosses the timing control line, unless otherwise specified by the event Supplemental Regulations.  


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#23
Johnny D

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It's great to see that they actually waved off a start when needed. A bit down hill from there.
I hope this doesn't deter future wave offs.

The other club (I hate to say the "N" word) has a flag system for these situations because they think flags are meant to communicate to the drivers.
Just saying.
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#24
JRHille

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https://www.youtube....h?v=CcYamaJdx4s

Here is my video from lap 5 onward.  I forgot to turn the camera back on for the restart.  After the restart, Kyle Webb was pushing me for a couple laps, until he made a pass in turn 5.  Directly after that, Sager and Elder were able to get by in turn 6 as I probably gave Sager a bit too much room? not sure. The video starts after the kink on that same lap.  Enjoy!


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#25
Caveman-kwebb99

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Great racing in sm this weekend. I personally did not even see the waveoff I was on Justin's bumper and looking in side mirror at brown's mechanical problem. So not knowing that there was a waveoff, when hille went I could not afford to let him get away, I like hille were waiting for a pace car to come out. I was very confused as we did not jump the start but brown's issue made it certainly look like we did. The officials ask me for my perspective and I told them the several things that happened and two of them said in my position they would have done exactly what I did if in my shoes, not that means I was correct in any way.

Like I told the Justin's the day before racing with them is so very easy in the sense that I have 100% trust in them on the track that they will not make moves that jeprodize our health so it allows me to drive at 9.5/10 all race inches from them in the corners.

Saturday was a blast and a real chess match! Sat on in p3 moat of the race very controlled and saving the car and tires but with a terribly bent rim from apex of Canada corner on lap one didn't seem to effect my pace at all but scarey in carousel and kink. When I got shuffled to p4 I thought my chance was gone but I soon got right back to p2 and knew I had pace on hille at the carousel and kink even with white knuckles. Hille went defensive after kink and that was check. It allowede to force him to pinch Canada and gavee the run to t14 where he had to go defensive again and I made sure he had to pinch that corner as well so I had the run and it was check mate.

Hille is fast learner he never raced me defensive at all Sunday and deserved the win he earned it! Josh what can you say... Drove a very smart race and once he was in the mix up front drove us all the way we would want to be driven hard but clean never moved over on anyone never defended that I saw, just drove his race. Congrats josh on your first majors podium I still remember my first majors podium in 2013 at mis. Enjoy the moment and then come out firing again next time.

Hille what can I say one of the best most humble guys you will ever race against, always willing to help, always genuinely happy for others when they do well, so I am so very proud of you taking over the national points total, we certainly didn't make it easy for you this weekend. And you drove a great race Sunday!

Elder, man can he do alot with a p5 car. Finds a way to still push you and stay in contention never gives up and drives clean everywhere.

We have such a great group of guys in this region its pretty much a family atmosphere at these races, no drama everyone interacting when we are not wrenching on watching vid etc.

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#26
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I was standing in pit lane just past start/finish. I monitor the corner workers radios. the starters are on the same radios. The starters where asked what was the cause of the wave off by race control. Starter responded saying that Tom Brown was in the grass, another car followed him into the grass and back a few rows the cars where 4 wide. Brown had a cam sensor issue and pulled into the grass to avoid being hit from behind and effecting others races.

 

The starter had a very emphatic shaking of his head, NO START. Kyle and Hille, took off at what appeared to be race speed and where half a straight away in front of the other 30 cars when they came up the front straight. That caused the Black Flag All situation. The resorting of the grid and 3rd restart caused the race to be a timed race. I have not checked the results yet, but I do believe the race was short by a couple laps and the first 2 laps where non-competitive (wave off and BFA). Sorry for the impound lecture Justin and Kyle.

 

The racing up front was great both days. Sounds like some pretty poor choices made farther back in field tore up some equipment.

 

The STL race had a STU car blow a motor at the kink. 5 cars ended up in the wall. At least 2 cars are destroyed, possibly a couple more.

 

dave


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#27
Justin Elder

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I will agree with the others, the racing this weekend was an absolute blast up front.  Hard but clean racing, just like it is supposed to be.  Most of the time Saturday I was waiting for Kyle and Justin to make mistakes that never happened.  On the other hand Sunday we had some crazy racing, lots of side by side through some fast corners.  Got pretty intense but what a great group of drivers all holding it together (albeit barely a few times, myself mostly).

 

Mr. Sager it was great to have you back in the mix!

 

I haven't raced with Josh much, but man did he show up and wheel that thing on Sunday.  Great run guy!

 

I was disappointed in the situation that led to the black flag all,  from my view in 3rd I could see there was not a clear understanding of what was happening after the wave-off and I knew the result was going to be wasted time and laps.  At the same time, I am wondering why it took 15 minutes of sitting on pit lane for the officials to get us back in our original starting order?  We could have still got all our laps in if they had been more expedient with that whole situation.  What do I know though?  I'm sure it was infinitely more complicated than that.

 

Hoping all the drivers in the STL race group are ok.  Some nasty looking carnage there.


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#28
Johnny D

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FYI, I don't see the flags in the rulebook, so I'll explain it.
(I understand that with a car off the track they should go yellow)

You get a wave off because the pack wasn't formed correctly.
The track goes 2 flags, yellow and red.
This tells the driver that the start has been waiver off and a new start is needed.
Slow down, group up, etc.

Yellow or double yellow doesn't really tell the driver there's going to be a restart.
They can still be at 8/10th running around, thus what happened.
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#29
Caveman-kwebb99

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I was standing in pit lane just past start/finish. I monitor the corner workers radios. the starters are on the same radios. The starters where asked what was the cause of the wave off by race control. Starter responded saying that Tom Brown was in the grass, another car followed him into the grass and back a few rows the cars where 4 wide. Brown had a cam sensor issue and pulled into the grass to avoid being hit from behind and effecting others races.

The starter had a very emphatic shaking of his head, NO START. Kyle and Hille, took off at what appeared to be race speed and where half a straight away in front of the other 30 cars when they came up the front straight. That caused the Black Flag All situation. The resorting of the grid and 3rd restart caused the race to be a timed race. I have not checked the results yet, but I do believe the race was short by a couple laps and the first 2 laps where non-competitive (wave off and BFA). Sorry for the impound lecture Justin and Kyle.

The racing up front was great both days. Sounds like some pretty poor choices made farther back in field tore up some equipment.

The STL race had a STU car blow a motor at the kink. 5 cars ended up in the wall. At least 2 cars are destroyed, possibly a couple more.

dave


Dave no apology needed but I accept it subject closed for me. We are all passionate about this shit and sometimes it comes across wrong. Hille and I were both wrong but we had no idea we were, we both learned from the discussion even if we didn't like the presentation. Thanks again for your help at the track! See you at mis.

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#30
Tom Hampton

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FYI, I don't see the flags in the rulebook, so I'll explain it.
(I understand that with a car off the track they should go yellow)

You get a wave off because the pack wasn't formed correctly.
The track goes 2 flags, yellow and red.
This tells the driver that the start has been waiver off and a new start is needed.
Slow down, group up, etc.

Yellow or double yellow doesn't really tell the driver there's going to be a restart.
They can still be at 8/10th running around, thus what happened.
J~

 

 

Its there.  See   Section 19.3.2:

 

Restart Flags

Categories:

 

 

Command; Global

Description:

 

 

One solid motionless yellow flag and one solid motionless red flag.

Uses:

 

 

Used to indicate that the start has been aborted despite the field receiving the green flag. This flag

command can only be used on the first lap.

 

 

If the start was not properly executed, or there was a miscue in

a split start, all manned flag stations will display one red flag and one yellow flag to together. This is a global

command ordering all drivers to stop racing, slow down, and realign themselves in the original starting order,

and prepare for a restart. This means that passing is allowed, and is usually necessary to regain the original

starting positions. SCRUBBING TIRES IS NOT ALLOWED during this reformation lap. Drivers must be

reordered and prepared for the green flag the next time through Start/Finish.


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#31
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There was no red flag.

 

There was a black flag.................

The session has been stopped; all cars must stop racing and proceed directly and immediately to the pits, exercising extreme caution.


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#32
Tom Hampton

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There was no red flag.

 

There was a black flag.................

The session has been stopped; all cars must stop racing and proceed directly and immediately to the pits, exercising extreme caution.

Yes, I get that.  J~ was referring to how the "other" organization does it, but couldn't find the rule for it. 


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#33
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watching on race monitor it was about 22 minutes of wasted track time


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#34
Jamz14

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 Webb drove his No. 99 Nova Brown not forgotten/ATL Speedway Mazda Miata to the win, but only 0.043-second ahead of Justin Hille, with Justin Elder less than 0.6-second behind.

 

Such a mix of emotions seeing my sons name unexpectedly. But one of them manifest as a smile knowing that Kyle drove his car to a win


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#35
Tom Sager

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I will agree with the others, the racing this weekend was an absolute blast up front.  Hard but clean racing, just like it is supposed to be.  Most of the time Saturday I was waiting for Kyle and Justin to make mistakes that never happened.  On the other hand Sunday we had some crazy racing, lots of side by side through some fast corners.  Got pretty intense but what a great group of drivers all holding it together (albeit barely a few times, myself mostly).

 

Mr. Sager it was great to have you back in the mix!

 

I haven't raced with Josh much, but man did he show up and wheel that thing on Sunday.  Great run guy!

 

I was disappointed in the situation that led to the black flag all,  from my view in 3rd I could see there was not a clear understanding of what was happening after the wave-off and I knew the result was going to be wasted time and laps.  At the same time, I am wondering why it took 15 minutes of sitting on pit lane for the officials to get us back in our original starting order?  We could have still got all our laps in if they had been more expedient with that whole situation.  What do I know though?  I'm sure it was infinitely more complicated than that.

 

Hoping all the drivers in the STL race group are ok.  Some nasty looking carnage there.

Very good seeing you Justin and thanks for a couple of pushes on Sunday.  You had a very good weekend.  No surprise there.  I didn't return the bump favor on one occasion up the front straight.  Had a good head of steam on that one and wanted to pick up a spot or two at that point.  I owe you one.  


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#36
JRHille

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http://youtu.be/UoCUAlptIOs

Video from Saturday, skip to the end to see Kyle's .04 margin of victory!
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#37
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Congrats on the win on Saturday Kyle.  2 Majors wins is no small feat. 


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#38
Caveman-kwebb99

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Congrats on the win on Saturday Kyle.  2 Majors wins is no small feat. 

Thanks Ross.


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