17 replies to this topic

[ner88]

NARRC and NERRC have added SM2 to our race program for 2011

[svvs]

I just checked the NARRC and NERRC website and didn't see any rules for it yet. I have been known to miss things though.

Any idea on what the rules are? Any idea what run group it would be in? I'm assuming (hoping?) it will be separate from SSM so those of us who double dip our cars can continue to do so.

[ner88]

SM2 is an NERRC/NARRC regional-only class for all 1990 through 1997 Mazda Miatas that comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for Spec Miata (SM). The SM2 tire rule is the same tire as listed in the GCR (with any amendments in Fastrack) for the Spec Miata National race class.

Should be online soon.
94-97 cars are not interchangable (rear gear)

[svvs]

I know this conversation was started someplace else, but I can't seem to find it.

What is going on with the handful of SSM racers we have up here in the North East (distinct from WDC region, where a strong SSM group is in effect).

I used to enjoy double dipping my SSM (97 hp according to Kessler Engineering) in SM, but at the end of last year got tired of people pulling away from me in SM races.

Are a lot of people changing their cars over from SSM to SM? In terms of the people I can think of fast:


AF: Changed
AM: Changed
Brandon: No Change (runs with WDC a lot)
Ed Z: ??
Ian P: ??

There are a handful of others, but I don't know how active they were on the forums.

Little help? Trying to put myself where the most competition will be, and I think SSM and SM2 are going to be a combined group in the North East.

-Vick

[Adam Figarsky]

HELLS YEAH I CHANGED...
you should too man...
-you can always switch back


AF: Changed
AM: Changed
Brandon: No Change (runs with WDC a lot)
Ed Z: ??
Ian P: ??

There are a handful of others, but I don't know how active they were on the forums.

Little help? Trying to put myself where the most competition will be, and I think SSM and SM2 are going to be a combined group in the North East.

-Vick
[/quote]

[wreckerboy]

I suspect you'll find many of us have just decided that SSM in WDCR is worth the tow (in my case, from central NJ). I've seen a steady increase in the number of people from up this way at Summit over the last two years.

[Scottie]

Rob is right. In some cases we have more SSM's in WDCR than we do SM's.

[Glenn Davis]

SM2 sounds like it is a class created merely to eliminate the NB's from an otherwise SM field. I don't understand the need, but I don't drive SM, just observe. I will tell you that last week at VIR we had a MARRS/SARRC race. On Saturday, the race was between two NA's and an NB. The Sunday race was dominated by an NA car. Another NA car ended up off in Hog Pen on the first lap, and went from 15th to 2nd. He passed a bunch of NC cars.

So on a course that has some real need for torque and hp, the NA cars did fine.

I am lucky to be in WDCR where the SSM class is well-populated. The only reason I have thought of to move to SM is to move to an NB car because I am a fatty. Otherwise, I am having a great time on a reasonable (for racing) budget fighting it out with my friends.

Edited by Glenn Davis, 05-13-2011 01:31 PM.

[ner88]

MARRS has a great SSM following but in most other regions SSM numbers have fallin off.
1.8 SSM cars are only legal in SSM, not SM, so no cross over there.
Ask anyone who is looking to get into racing Miatas and they will want to buy a 99' not a NA car.
NA cars are really not competive agains 99' in SM.
So, why not have a place for them to be, SM2.
Why do other regions not have the SSM following?
Because racers are not willing to step up and organize!

[Glenn Davis]

MARRS has a great SSM following but in most other regions SSM numbers have fallin off.
1.8 SSM cars are only legal in SSM, not SM, so no cross over there.
Ask anyone who is looking to get into racing Miatas and they will want to buy a 99' not a NA car.
NA cars are really not competive agains 99' in SM.
So, why not have a place for them to be, SM2.
Why do other regions not have the SSM following?
Because racers are not willing to step up and organize!

I understand that, but don't agree with the NA's being not competitive. The NA won the SM MARRS championship for the last couple of years, and if Price and Kopp keep it up, it will win again. The Meathead camp has a couple of NB's that are competitive, with experienced drivers, but they are not at all dominant. I really expected the test to be at VIR this past week. There were three top-prepped NB's out there. On Saturday, the NB was pushed to the win by an NA. On Sunday, there wasn't an NB in the same zipcode when the NA won.

If I move to SM, it will be in an NB, but only because I know I can make weight.

[ner88]

On a National level the NB is the car of choice....by far!

[svvs]

Took a quick look at the recent races at Pocono and New Hampshire, and found the following entries. I may be off by one or two.

Pocono Regional: 17 SM, 4 SSM
NH Regional: 25ish SM, 8 or 9 SSM

Note I didn't help any car counts....I was at the Devil in the Dark in an ITA car, and a wedding.

MARRS has a great SSM class, but living on LI it's hard to make the tow way down there. I'm more of a WGI to NJMP guy.

[Kevin Anderson]

I just don't understand the point of SSM, I always ran it as a 2nd class for more lap time, But SM was primary. and it makes more sense to have SM2, that way you don't have to be bothered swapping intakes and exhaust.

I actually really enjoyed running one class recently at Pocono on Sunday. It has been several years now of SSm & SM and honestly it can be hectic, doing both. It was nice to run one class.

I wish all the miatas were one class again with the large fields we used to have.

[Muda]

I wish all the miatas were one class again with the large fields we used to have.

Now that you have your '99. ( :

[Kevin Anderson]

Now that you have your '99. ( :

lol
believe me, I wish they never allowed them,
"If you can't beat them join them"

[Brandon]

Obviously I have a dog in this hunt - this is my second year of SSM - so take MHO for what it's worth.
And my apologies for the length of the post...

(Jerry - I don't mean to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I mis-stuff something in there)
There are two distinct attitudes about SSM between some regions here in the NE: one wishes for more crossover (from SM) and the other is just fine with how things are currently. I'll leave it to you to figure out who's who.

Fortunately (or unfortunately if you're a pessimist), there's only one person "active" in trying to drum up a more cohesive rules package with the intent of trying to increase said crossover division-wide and he's attempting to do so with common sense additions to the "base premise" of SSM.

Why a certain region feels that R-package tie rod ends (TREs) or alternate shock hats imply a higher level of preparedness over a car that doesn't have them is beyond me. If you're still limiting the air that can come in/out of the engine while restricting both the quantity of fuel & the applied spark, there's not a whole lot of room left to play with any of the "expensive" portions of car prep (dyno time for PCM/intake/exhaust combinations, exotic plugs & wires...) Even with the TREs & shock hats it still comes down to the driver's skill and what they can do with what you've given them within the platform itself.

How can disallowing those make the field any more competitive otherwise?

As it usually happens in most competitive events (and with us "quick fix" humans), those who aren't at the front are looking for an easy way to reach that point. So you get petitions to do this, or that, or as with the PCM & fuel regulator for 2011, a way to eliminate an "impossible to tech" cheat (I do use quotes but that's another discussion for another forum ). And this causes rules creep (no, I don't mean Vick ) and people get up in arms over "You mean I've gotta go out and buy what now?"

Poof! SSM was born.

Maybe the contented region launched it right by requiring a dyno test and sealing which ensured no monkeying with the internals. Or perhaps the other regions didn't realize the need for this sub-class soon enough and now there's too much inertia to get the contented one to change their approach. Regardless, my biggest beef with SSM is the lack of any self-policing that (I presume) goes on in SM but that's partly my own fault too.

Only once did I call another driver out for having the alternate shock hats and he was nice enough to DNS for our race and I've not heard of anyone (other than the Summit incident from earlier last year for spark plug wires) else doing so within the division.

But this brings out another bit of the rules that either I've missed or has never been addressed: what's stopping someone from building a "pro" SM motor and then slapping on the proper SSM head (thickness requirement), intake, exhaust, & plate and go running with SSM? I don't see anything in the SSM rules that disallows someone from doing so?

Anyway - sorry for the rant.

This situation is a classic chicken/egg proposition: one region feels they've matched their membership's needs adequately whereas others are left playing catch-up and then including some variables (IMO, mostly for the better ultimately) which the first doesn't particularly agree with (and I've not heard an adequately explained reason other than "Our participation numbers prove we don't need it.")

To address those who were curious about my participation, I'm still running SSM for 2011 however with the recent changes to the NA1.8 (bigger plate, lighter weight, R-pack TREs, 4.3 ring gear, shock hats) I'm seriously considering a run to SM for 2012. Either that or I make the wife take a knife to a gun fight and have her run the SSM in SM.

Now, if I go with SM for 2012, and if SM2 still exists then, will I decide to play in both or just one, I'm not sure. So count another "on the fence" for SM2 participation.

L8R,
Brandon
P.S. Anyone coming to the Pro-IT at NJMP this weekend?

[Weekend Warrior]

You pretty much answered your own arguement, Our participation numbers prove we did it right. I don't run SSM but Jim and Andrew sure did a good thing with the class in the DC Region. I run a lowly 1.6 NA in SM (what an idiot right?)... SSM is out subscribing every other class in our region because there is very strict observance on what is done to the competitors' cars. There are still ways to cheat the system and always will be... People who run gear oil when they get their car dyno'd...people who run heavier gear oil in the trans and diff when they get sealed..... But the majority (literally) like what Jim Thill did with SSM in the DC Region. Why should they sway from what is working when the proof is there... Other regions can't get it to work because they don't want to either enforce the rules that do work OR they have an ego issue and don't even try what has proven to work.

Back in my hole now, trying to massage another HP out of my pathetic 1.6 SM...

[wreckerboy]

Brandon, I just don't get what your complaint is. A "certain region" is "contented" with the results of SSM and you think that needs to be changed? Why? Because a large number of competitors in that "certain region" seem to be very happy with the ruleset as it is and as evidenced by the participation numbers Alan references apparently see no need for change? As you note, it would appear that the rest of the region got it wrong and has missed their opportunity.

So why punish/change those of us who see SSM at WDCR as A Good Thing? Nobody is forcing the rest of the region to change to our rules. If you want to compete here, you run to our rules, which is no different than any other class. I suggest you look to the membership in the rest of the region, who is decidedly not local and yet chooses to make the trip to Summit all year to run in a class that works. I could run in races a lot closer to home than SP, but I chose not to, because WDCR's program works for me. If the rest of the NE offered that level of competitiveness I might reconsider.

/rant