52 replies to this topic

[larsonracing]

I am planning to Spec my 2008 Mazda Miata. It is a 2008 Grand Touring. Is 6k enough to completely build a NASA Spec Miata? What would the budget breakdown look like? or. Seats,cage, everything.

[Ron Alan]

Couple things...2008 car not eligible for SM. SM5 in SCCA. PTD in NASA? $6000 to take a street car and turn into a competitive race car? Might be a little light

Cage, seat, belts, transponder, safety equipment...more than $6k and you haven't gotten far...

[larsonracing]

How much are we looking at? What is showroom Miata, I was convinced it was NC miatas. What all would I need to take it from the street to the track?

[Ron Alan]

Really no idea...I would just start a spread sheet and start adding up what you need to buy. Then what you will need to pay for you can't do yourself. It won't take long to come up with your budget. Search SM5 on here...you might find some build info.

[Alberto]

Have you done any track days before?  Start with HPDE to get on track and learn about high performance driving and the racing line.  Here is a local to you organization that is pretty well run and has some good instructors: http://www.chinmotorsports.com/

[MDixon]

http://www.miatacage...t-build-package

 

Here is a start but this is parts only, labor is going to add up quick.  But as Ron said an '08 is not legal.

 

You should track your car to get the juices flowing, all you need is a roll bar and you just might meet the guy that will sell you his already built SM for a fraction of the cost.

[ChrisA]

Have you done any track days before?  Start with HPDE to get on track and learn about high performance driving and the racing line.  Here is a local to you organization that is pretty well run and has some good instructors: http://www.chinmotorsports.com/

 

+1  If you have none or little track experience start doing some HPDEs. Chin is very good and has an event at VIR in late Oct. FSR-PCA has an event at VIR using the South Course for 2 days and then moving to the Full Course the 3rd day in mid-Sept. They are also a good group of folks and the cost is reasonable. http://www.motorspor...66#.VcnjM3gqdE4

NASA may also be an option, but their events can be somewhat hectic if you are just starting.

[davew]

Best Answer

Since nobody is actually answering your question, here goes;

 

Spec Miata and it's various offshoots (SSM, WSM, SMT, SM2, etc) are based on first gen cars from 1990-2005 model year. 1990-97 known as NA cars and 99-05 as NB cars. The NC version built from 2006-2015 are a completely different car. They are raceable, just not as a SM. NC cars can compete in T3, T4, or SM5 depending upon certain options. You can also run in various NASA classes depending upon what you decide to modify.

 

The closest class to SM is SM5. It is basicly a spec class for the NC cars with most of the rules coming from the MX5 Cup program. Complete rules for all these classes are online in the appropriate rule book.

 

Not because I need to sell another book, but buy my book "The Spec Miata Constructors Guide" available at the website below. If you decide to build your NC car, it will not be a technical guide, but does offer a lot of valuable info on how to prepare a safe, reliable race car.

 

Do not just download the rules and then ignore them. Read and understand what they say. Remember the most important rule (everybody say it together) If the rules don't say you can, you can not. This applies to all the classes listed above. When you get to Production catagory and GT cars that rule start to fade.

 

Converting your 2008 into a SM5 or T4 would be the wisest path. Plan on a parts expense of $10-15,000 to do it right. Sure you can cut some corners, but to do it right, that is a fair number.

 

Hardtop, $2300. There are none on the used market, you have to buy new from Mazda. SM5 allows an aftermarket top that is still about $1000 with shipping

SM5 suspension, $1300

Roll cage kit, $1000

Seat, seat belts, window net, fire bottle etc. $1000

Clutch $500

Upgrade 3-4 shift parts $800

Extra set wheels $800

2 sets race tires $2000

Add in some nicities like a removable steering wheel. Or some upgrades like a better seat. And just normal maintenance stuff like fluids, filters and hoses. Figure another $1000 to $5000

Personal safety gear, suit, helmet, gloves, Hans and you add another $1500+

 

And that has not touched labor. If you are going to pay someone to build a turn key car, figure $10k+. If you can do it all yourself, including welding a cage and scaling the car, figure 300 hours.

 

Advanced has built 3 T4 cars (including last years Runoffs winner) from NC Miatas. The added power makes them a lot of fun to drive. The power steering makes them easier than a SM to drive, especially at enduros. We are starting to develope more parts for the NC and have added many of them to our website.

 

If you have questions about building an NC, give me a call

 

dave

[Jamz14]

Ill sell you used hard tops for $1500

[davew]

If you have a used NC hardtop for $1500, Ill buy it.

[Jamz14]

Ooops. Didn't take into consideration it was an NC top.  But at $2500 , another good reason for the SM class to consider the new Mazda factory available top. I can not recall if they were available for the NC though.

[Tom Hampton]

Ooops. Didn't take into consideration it was an NC top.  But at $2500 , another good reason for the SM class to consider the new Mazda factory available top. I can not recall if they were available for the NC though.

"Letitgo". 

[larsonracing]

+1 If you have none or little track experience start doing some HPDEs. Chin is very good and has an event at VIR in late Oct. FSR-PCA has an event at VIR using the South Course for 2 days and then moving to the Full Course the 3rd day in mid-Sept. They are also a good group of folks and the cost is reasonable. http://www.motorspor...66#.VcnjM3gqdE4
NASA may also be an option, but their events can be somewhat hectic if you are just starting.

I have not had any track experience. I've been to VIR multiple times and have helped friends during events. I've heard Chin Motorsports is a great place to learn instruction. What is getting a NASA competition lisence like?

[larsonracing]

Since nobody is actually answering your question, here goes;

Spec Miata and it's various offshoots (SSM, WSM, SMT, SM2, etc) are based on first gen cars from 1990-2005 model year. 1990-97 known as NA cars and 99-05 as NB cars. The NC version built from 2006-2015 are a completely different car. They are raceable, just not as a SM. NC cars can compete in T3, T4, or SM5 depending upon certain options. You can also run in various NASA classes depending upon what you decide to modify.

The closest class to SM is SM5. It is basicly a spec class for the NC cars with most of the rules coming from the MX5 Cup program. Complete rules for all these classes are online in the appropriate rule book.

Not because I need to sell another book, but buy my book "The Spec Miata Constructors Guide" available at the website below. If you decide to build your NC car, it will not be a technical guide, but does offer a lot of valuable info on how to prepare a safe, reliable race car.

Do not just download the rules and then ignore them. Read and understand what they say. Remember the most important rule (everybody say it together) If the rules don't say you can, you can not. This applies to all the classes listed above. When you get to Production catagory and GT cars that rule start to fade.

Converting your 2008 into a SM5 or T4 would be the wisest path. Plan on a parts expense of $10-15,000 to do it right. Sure you can cut some corners, but to do it right, that is a fair number.

Hardtop, $2300. There are none on the used market, you have to buy new from Mazda. SM5 allows an aftermarket top that is still about $1000 with shipping
SM5 suspension, $1300
Roll cage kit, $1000
Seat, seat belts, window net, fire bottle etc. $1000
Clutch $500
Upgrade 3-4 shift parts $800
Extra set wheels $800
2 sets race tires $2000
Add in some nicities like a removable steering wheel. Or some upgrades like a better seat. And just normal maintenance stuff like fluids, filters and hoses. Figure another $1000 to $5000
Personal safety gear, suit, helmet, gloves, Hans and you add another $1500+

And that has not touched labor. If you are going to pay someone to build a turn key car, figure $10k+. If you can do it all yourself, including welding a cage and scaling the car, figure 300 hours.

Advanced has built 3 T4 cars (including last years Runoffs winner) from NC Miatas. The added power makes them a lot of fun to drive. The power steering makes them easier than a SM to drive, especially at enduros. We are starting to develope more parts for the NC and have added many of them to our website.

If you have questions about building an NC, give me a call

dave

This right here pretty much hit the nail on the head. First off, thank you. I was pretty sure that you couldn't run an 08 Miata but wanted to make sure 100%. SM5 looks to be the best answer. Do you think NASA will offer a spec class for the NC cars just like the 1990-1997 and 1998-2005 cars? Is SM5 pretty new? SM5 seems worth checking out. What sanctioning body do they run in? Glad to give you a call.

[Tom Hampton]

I have not had any track experience. I've been to VIR multiple times and have helped friends during events. I've heard Chin Motorsports is a great place to learn instruction. What is getting a NASA competition lisence like?

Having just been through this in January....

 

Expect to spend about 40 on-track hours (not at the track, but actual time in the car at speed) learning to drive and reaching a level good enough to get your license.  NASA HPDE, open track days at tracks, organization like Chin Motorsports, etc are all similar.  NASA is best as a weekend long commitment. 

 

NASA has a full HPDE ladder system that will take you from new guy off the street to full competition license.  If you are familiar with the weekend activities of a race organization like NASA, then there is no reason to avoid it.  But, don't limit yourself to it.  Most newbies are geographically limited and are less inclined to make a long tow for a track day or two, with good reason.  So, limiting yourself to NASA for most people would limit their track days to a few a year.  The desire to tow to far off tracks will come as the addiction truly takes hold.  Aim for once a month or so as budget and schedule allow (more if you can swing it)---8-10 per year. 

 

You can start out in your car with street tires and a roll-bar.  the street tires will be fine until you are knocking on the door of the advanced run group.  At that point you would want to graduate to used race-tires. 

 

Buy some books:

 

1.  Dave's book above.

2. Going Faster by Carl Lopez

3.  Drive to Win, by Carol Smith

4. Twist of the Wrist, by Keith Code

 

There are others, but that is a VERY good start. 

 

Simulators can be good if you treat them like you are driving a real car.  rFactor and iRacing. 

[Bench Racer]

Following are more ways to acheive track time with your street car. You may have similar type days in your area with other organizations/tracks. Check these out to view requirements.

 

SCCA   Sports Car Club of America   http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/

 

SCCA rules     http://cdn.growasset....pdf?1438229180

 

SCCA license   http://www.scca.com/...nt-to-road-race

 

Midwestern Council    http://www.mcscc.org/autocross.php

 

Blackhawk Farm Raceway   http://www.blackhawk...ive-track-days/

 

Most of all, Have Fun.

[davew]

My opinion;

 

If you want to race, RACE. Don't waste a bunch of time and money on track days and the NASA HPDE ladder program. Driving on the track is a totally different experience than racing. If you just want to drive on the track, then have a ball doing it. But if your goal is to race wheel to wheel, anything more than a couple DE days is a waste. I have a lot of hotshoe DE guys who get into a race situation and are back markers. They have not developed the "racers" skill set.

 

Go to the track, make friends. Read a lot. There is tons of info available on the interwebs. Read some more. The most expensive method is to do something wrong the first time and have to do it over.

 

My first rule of racing; Driver pays for everything. Even somebody elses mistakes.

 

dave

[ChrisA]

My opinion;

 

If you want to race, RACE. Don't waste a bunch of time and money on track days and the NASA HPDE ladder program. Driving on the track is a totally different experience than racing. If you just want to drive on the track, then have a ball doing it. But if your goal is to race wheel to wheel, anything more than a couple DE days is a waste.

 

Disagree. The last thing you should want to do is throw a driver that is still nervous, lacking confidence or lacking car control skill & awareness into competitive racing. It is dangereous for them and their fellow racers. Heck, we just had a thead that mentioned problems with folks moving into and up the racing ladder (into Majors) with inadequate experience. Seat time is important and every individual progresses at a different rate, some slowly and a few quickly. HPDEs are a great avenue to gain the "driving" skills and for learning new tracks.

 

 

 

I have a lot of hotshoe DE guys who get into a race situation and are back markers. They have not developed the "racers" skill set.

 

Go to the track, make friends. Read a lot. There is tons of info available on the interwebs. Read some more. The most expensive method is to do something wrong the first time and have to do it over.

 

My first rule of racing; Driver pays for everything. Even somebody elses mistakes.

 

dave

 

Agree

[38bfast]

I have to disagree with Dave on this one as well. Learn how to drive the car fast first in HPDE. Then once you got that down then learn how to race.

[larsonracing]

Disagree. The last thing you should want to do is throw a driver that is still nervous, lacking confidence or lacking car control skill & awareness into competitive racing. It is dangereous for them and their fellow racers. Heck, we just had a thead that mentioned problems with folks moving into and up the racing ladder (into Majors) with inadequate experience. Seat time is important and every individual progresses at a different rate, some slowly and a few quickly. HPDEs are a great avenue to gain the "driving" skills and for learning new tracks.


Agree

So I should get to know the track as well as the car in HPDE and then slide into Spec Miata when I have the skills and mindset?