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#1
Sphinx

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I'm new to Cali and just got my new-to-me F250 (weight 7100 lbs.) registered.  They made me sign one of those "shall not operate at over 10K lbs. forms".  So, an enclosed trailer that I'm considering buying is 3900 lbs. empty + 2300 for the car + 1500 lbs. in parts/crap = roughly 15,000 lbs. for the whole rig.

 

From what I can tell, I need to register the truck as over 10K, but other than a few fees, what else do I have to do to avoid CHiPs?  Inspections?

 

 



#2
Ron Alan

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Go to DMV.gov and find what they are referring to. I thought this had something to do with when the vehicle is used as a commercial/business vehicle. As a private vehicle you can certainly tow whatever the truck is rated at with no issue i believe??

 

I got randomly stopped on my way into the dump with my work/dump trailer. Was not giving a ticket but told I needed to change my truck licensing for this exact thing...now its my personal trailer :)  Living life on the edge...


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#3
RWP80000

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I think Ron is correct, you need to find out exactly the what & why of the restrictions for the form you signed.  

 

While I do not live in California, and therefore am not familiar with all of their requirements, my thoughts is that the 10,000 lb limits may be in regard to the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) rating and may be the maximum loaded weight of your truck it's self generally based on axle weight ratings (or it may just be one of those Gov Reg's to get additional fees).  

 

There is also a Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) which refers to the combined truck and trailer weight.  In your case you may find that IF your vehicle in fact has a GVWR of 7100 lbs, it also has a tow rating as well (not to be confused with hitch rating).

If you were to find your truck was rated to tow a 10,000 lb trailer, then your gross combined rating could be 17,100 lbs.  

 

Generally, in most states a gross vehicle weight or gross combined vehicle weight over 26,000 lbs, requires a commercial drivers lic (CDL). There are exceptions for non commercial (as in RV use) where you can exceed that 26,000 lb. limit and not require the operator to have a CDL (as long the vehicle's official weight ratings, located on the vehicle, are greater that what you are operating the vehicle/trailer at.  However, even if you are operating as a non-commercial class (ever notice the "Not for Hire" markings on rigs), you could, if stopped for some reason get a ticket if found to exceed the rigs "rated" weight limit.

 

 

There should be a sticker on your truck door jam with both tire pressure recommendations and axle load limits along with the gross vehicle weight limit. Usually the gross combined info is found in the owners manual.

 

Another area of concern for larger rig's is the overall length limit which is typically 65 feet.  There are exceptions to this but this area has created problems as well as being easy to spot. 

 

Rich Powers



#4
davew

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Remember that everything is based off of GVWR. The R (rating) being the important letter. It makes no difference that the truck is empty, everything is based off what it is rated to carry. Thus a duallie (GVWR of 10k) with a triple axle goose neck (typically a 20K rating) exceeds the 26k max number for most peoples drivers license. To be legal you need a class A license (same as a semi), but do not need it to be commercial. A "non-CDL" class A is allowed.

 

The license plate must match the GVWR of the vehicle. The driver's license, must match the vehicle GVWR and the combined truck/trailer GVWR. Then you get into having the proper inspections that some states require for trucks over a certain weight.

 

Some law enforcement agencies are calling racing a commercial enterprise. In circle track land, you get a payout in cash for winning, thus you are commercial in the eyes of some police. We race for trophies. But we do have cash contingency programs that make us technically a commercial business. If you write any portion of your racing off on your taxes, you are admitting to being commercial.

 

We are in a very gray area. Just yesterday, I had a discussion with the Wisconsin CDL auditter. He makes sure you have all the proper paperwork, insurance, licensing etc. He could not tell me exactly what I need to have. Although we take cars accross state lines, which make us INTERSTATE, we do not leave anything in another state, which would make us INTRASTATE. I am not saying any of this is right. Just be carefull. Having your rig impounded because of the wrong paperwork is a real beatch.

 

Dave


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#5
Ron Alan

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Hence all the "Not for Hire" sticker on all rigs? Non-commercial?


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#6
Mike Collins

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I've got no stickers, I've got regular plates on the Motorhome and Maine tags on the trailer.  Its 81' long and probably weighs north of 50,000# loaded...  thank god for the AARP and loopholes for RV's.....  I have a regular drivers license and don't stop at weigh stations...  Sooner or later someone with nothing better to do is going to stop me but like Dave I have talked to everyone I can locally and not one single person can definitively tell me what I have to have.  I don't tow other peoples cars in this rig so its certainly not commercial....


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#7
Mark

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In CA if you have a tag trailer that exceeds 10k GVWR or a fifth wheel/gooseneck trailer that is over 15k GVWR you are required to have a class A CDL. There are non-commercial and commercial class A licenses. For the commercial class A you need to have a doctors physical placed on file every 2 years. The non-commercial requires a self attested physical to be filed every two years. The exams, both written and driving, are the same for both. You need to retake the written exams for any endorsements you may have when you take the class A license written test. That was a surprise as I had to take the class M (motorcycle) and class C (passenger car) tests with no preparation. The 26k GVWR  limit does apply for the class C but as the GVWR does not include trailer weight the 26k limit doesn't really come into play (unless the trailer is over 26k GVWR) as there is an exception for house cars (rv's) up to 40'. It is easy to confuse GCWR with GVWR. GCWR is the combined weight of the truck and trailer. GVWR refers to each vehicle independently. 

 

The license class has does not affect the total length limit of 65' in CA. Very few racers that I have talked to have a class A endorsement. Most anyone with a motorhome and an enclosed trailer is well over 65'. Lots of opportunity for revenue generation. 

 

Tow safely my friends.


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#8
davew

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A very good friend of mine is friends with an Illinois DOT officer. I asked him specificly about my toter, which is about the same size as Meatheads.  he told me:

 

Drivers license must meet GVWR ratings of the vehicle as being driven. Weights must match. For mine I need a class A non-CDL

 

RV must be personally owned, not business property

 

RV can NOT be used for commercial use. Are we commercial due to contingency money?

 

RV can have no advertising on it.

 

RV do NOT stop at weigh stations.

 

Must meet the rules for an RV. Many people try to title a semi tractor as an RV, but that is not how the law is intended.

 

If you get stopped, and the cop determines you do not have the proper license plates, you will get a ticket. If he determines you do not have the correct drivers license, you are parked where you are until someone with the proper license can move the vehicle.

 

California has some wierd laws concerning emmisions that older vehicles do not meet. Glad I don't live there.

 

I am not an expert, but this is what I have been told.

 

Dave


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#9
Mike Collins

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I have RV tags on my rig and Maryland does not require me to have an additional endorsement on my license to drive my rig since it is "exempt" as a motorhome...  I'm always worried how that will play out in other states...


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#10
davew

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In Illinois, if the RV weighs over a certain amount, you need the extra endorsement. And the giant trailer definately puts us over the weight limit.

 

Other states may vary


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#11
Waterboy

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I have RV tags on my rig and Maryland does not require me to have an additional endorsement on my license to drive my rig since it is "exempt" as a motorhome...  I'm always worried how that will play out in other states...

 

That's not true.  You are supposed to have a different license.  You need to have a Class B if you are not towing the trailer, and a Class A if you are.  Not CDL.  You are also supposed to stop at the weigh stations in MD.  Not all states are the same.

 

Most states if you are licensed correctly for the state your vehicle is registered in you will not have an issue.  You will run into some issues like length, California and Maine I know have length limits that are less than other states, and California I believe just passed some new emissions stuff that if you vehicle doesn't meet you are not allowed to drive it in the state (that might be for just Semi's).

 

Does that mean that we follow those rules.  Of Course :)


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#12
Mike Collins

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That's not true.  You are supposed to have a different license.  You need to have a Class B if you are not towing the trailer, and a Class A if you are.  Not CDL.  You are also supposed to stop at the weigh stations in MD.  Not all states are the same.

 

Most states if you are licensed correctly for the state your vehicle is registered in you will not have an issue.  You will run into some issues like length, California and Maine I know have length limits that are less than other states, and California I believe just passed some new emissions stuff that if you vehicle doesn't meet you are not allowed to drive it in the state (that might be for just Semi's).

 

Does that mean that we follow those rules.  Of Course :)

I went to the MVA... not what they said....  The website says you have to have it, but the counter people say no...


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#13
Todd Tagget

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I went to the MVA... not what they said....  The website says you have to have it, but the counter people say no...

In CA the limit is 45ft  for an RV. over and you need a special license.  Total length in CA is 65 ft I'm around 69 feet but I am registered in Nevada. 

Maybe Craig Evans can chime in here as he's a Sheriff in CA 


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#14
Mitch Reading

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Stay away from the PA suburbs...

 

Our buddy from VA Beach came up to pull three PCA cars down to Sebring for us a few years back.  Rig was an toter RV with a bumper pull stacker.  Non commercial, personally registered, no advertising, etc.  Florida registration.

 

A municipal cop pulled him over to "check weight" which we see fairly often as a cash grab from contractors overloading their rigs.  The cop was 110% over his head when it came to citing regulations, and the rig was not overweight, but tied my buddies up on the side of the road for non-CDL for hours.  The more push back given, the more adamant the cop became.  Lots of fun.  A huge $$ citation was written, as the municipal cop saw the FL tags and guessed no one was coming back to town to contest.  That, and the Porsches in the back... which he cited as commercial simply due to race shop windshield banners ala Meathead Racing.

 

My buddy came back to town for his day in court and got ticket thrown out... but not without a lot of brain damage and wasted time.

 

God bless the cop that pulls over Meathead some day for something similar...   


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#15
Waterboy

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I went to the MVA... not what they said.... The website says you have to have it, but the counter people say no...


If you're comfortable relying on what the people that work in the mea say then ok.

Ask dot they are the ones that write the tickets the mva just shows up for work. 😄
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#16
davew

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The  Wi. DOT guy I talked to yesterday did not know how to classify me. I told him I would do whatever was needed and he could not tell me. My buddies buddy seemed to KNOW what we should do. Class B non CDL for just the toter. Class A non-CDL for toter with trailer if not used for commercial. Class A CDL if used for commercial.

 

I think the only difference between Non-CDL and a CDL is the alcohol limit. 0.04 vs 0.08 in Illinois. Same written and driving test.

 

Now the real killer. We took my semi to the parking lot driving test and it physically will not do the test. long wheel base tractor with long wheelbase (and not adjustable) trailer will not do the back up and turn between the cones test. My buddy mentioned above, has driven trucks for 30+ years. His normal everyday truck is a short wheel base tractor with a low boy construction trailer. He backs and manuevers around construction sites every day. And his truck also will not do the parking lot test. How can it be that a legal to drive truck will not pass the drivers test.

 

Personally, I am getting a Class A CDL this winter. Just so I don't have to worry about being parked by some a-hole cop.

 

Dave


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#17
Mark

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When I did my test it was damn near impossible - 48' long 11' high gooseneck and dually pickup. Can you say blind? All the cdl applicants that were there when I took my test had short trucks with short 20' flatbed trailers with pieces of tape tacked on the side as markers to help them determine when to turn. Visibility was no issue with these rigs. Clearly these guys were well prepped by a school. Might be a good idea to check with one of the schools to see if you could rent a rig for the test. 


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#18
Sphinx

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Good point on the GCWR.  The truck is 10,000 and the trailer is 9990 = 19,990 lbs.

 

The way I read this, because the GCWR is 20,000 = $447 weight fee.  Is that right?!

 

https://www.dmv.ca.g...ercial/cvra#pti



#19
Mark

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Good lord. Can this get any more complicated? According to the excerpt below fees are based upon unladen weight and not the tagged GVWR. I interpret the text below to exempt most pickups and rvs. Maybe wishful thinking on my part?

 

Vehicles NOT Affected
  • Light-weight trucks and vans, if the declared GVW or CGW is 10,000 lbs. or less.
  • Pickups with an unladen weight of 8,000 lbs. (even if the operating weight is over 10,000 lbs.)
  • Taxis/rental limousines/charter-party carriers operating limousines if the declared GVW is 10,000 lbs. or less.
  • Park trailers/trailer coaches.

Weight fees for the above vehicles (except trailers) are based on the unladen weight.

 

Good point on the GCWR.  The truck is 10,000 and the trailer is 9990 = 19,990 lbs.

 

The way I read this, because the GCWR is 20,000 = $447 weight fee.  Is that right?!

 

https://www.dmv.ca.g...ercial/cvra#pti


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#20
davew

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Glad I don't live in California


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