64 replies to this topic

[MPR22]

You guys are making me want to start sim racing! Thanks for the information Danny, Dave, and others. 

[mhiggins10]

There are many options as to why there is lag, and I would love to see the backend for iRacing, but I am an infrastructure guy so that is my thing.

 

One piece of the rig that helped me more than I would have ever believed was putting a sub connected to an amp under the seat and plugging it into the sound this feeds off the bass of the car as well as when you hit a bump or a curb adds just a little feel to the experience. Adding this to the setup made enough of a difference that almost immediately I was more consistent in my laps (and I have only been using it for 2 weeks). The addon that is on the rig I was using is called a buttkicker. I have seen some DIY plans out there for the same type of thing not sure if they are much cheaper than the about $200 for a buttkicker though.

 

Dave

 

I was going to speculate as to the lag, but I'm with you- without understanding what data (and thus how much) is being passed back and forth, it's impossible to know what impact connection speed has.  I'm an application guy and can think of two or three ways to do this, from just passing a simple x/y coordinate of the car back and forth to the server, to passing much more complex data (user viewing angle, speed and car dynamics info, same info for other cars and their models, etc.)- just too hard to see.

 

Anyone want to hook up a packet sniffer to their setup and get some data?

 

In all likelihood, I really doubt this would suffer too much from a slow connection.  It's not like a massive real-time shooter (eg COD or Battlefield) where you have bullets flying and potentially hundreds of other players participating in realtime with VOIP running as well.

[Pat Ross]

Mike,

 

I agree.

 

Pat

[Steve Scheifler]

It certainly downloads a lot of data per track, and no reason to not have that local. In single-player mode It would not seem to make sense to pass much of anything back & forth during play, but in races with a lot of other players it probably requires a bit of bandwidth. Still, I wouldn't expect that data to compare with streamlining HD so lag shouldn't be an issue.

[Kevin B]

The connection quality and throughput is significant were one to join an open practice or race session.  Once the PC/client connection to the common server (for up to 60 other iracers in a session) is established, their application seems to ping the clients continuously and monitor connection performance for all.  if too much latency is introduced it will drop a client from the session mid-race, etc.   That scenario has become less common but the system used to have such persistence through poor connections that you'd see cars disappear, flicker and re-appear on track which presented a challenge if you were close...  Likely, home connectivity is improving across the community but I also think they are now more stringent during the initial auth/ack phases before a session begins to weed out suspect clients.  (And that's about as deep into the IT waters as I can go.)  Fortunately, I have some very good infrastructure architects on my team...

[Rob Burgoon]

Ignore what your ISP says about "gaming speeds".

 

What you care about is latency (ping), not bandwidth.

 

Avoid satellite service, avoid dial up.

 

Cable, fiber, dsl, uverse, any of those are fine, at any bandwidth.

[MotoFusi]

Last night I took Danny's advice and drove a faster car. I was working on Mid O in MX5 for  a week or so. Kind of hit a wall. Did about 40 minutes in a RUF Porsche then went back to the MX5. Poof a second gone. Watched Jet Hawthorne's video of going through the pack...Poof another second gone.

 

It works.........

[Jim Drago]

last night i renewed my i racing.... Bought several tracks that i did not have.. I tried an mx5 car at Homestead and crashed about 6-7 times and never made more than 1/3 a lap.. never completed 3 laps and shut it back off

 

First time I have touched since about 2010.. I'm sure it is just the wheel or the computer

[Danica Davison]

I raced iracing for about a year until my computer broke and still haven't gotten a new one yet but i look to get another computer soon.  I agree with what danny and hille have said too.  I personally think the Skippy/SRF handles more similar to the spec Miata than the mx5 does but I haven't played in a year so I don't know what physics upgrades they have made in that time. I hope they have made some to the mx5. All the other young spec Miata guys down here in Florida play and I look forward to getting back into it.   I think it helps track familiarization, some race craft, and consistency while driving, some other things, but most importantly...it is the best online racing you can get in to... with a lot of good drivers.   

[FTodaro]

last night i renewed my i racing.... Bought several tracks that i did not have.. I tried an mx5 car at Homestead and crashed about 6-7 times and never made more than 1/3 a lap.. never completed 3 laps and shut it back off

 

First time I have touched since about 2010.. I'm sure it is just the wheel or the computer

Sure Jim blame the computer. This could just be a new development in your driving skill. I am trying to guess what Erik would say.

[Danny Steyn]

Last night I took Danny's advice and drove a faster car. I was working on Mid O in MX5 for  a week or so. Kind of hit a wall. Did about 40 minutes in a RUF Porsche then went back to the MX5. Poof a second gone. Watched Jet Hawthorne's video of going through the pack...Poof another second gone.

 

It works.........

 

Yup MotoFusi - and the final acid test for you will be to see if what worked on the sim, works on the track in SM. Keep at it, for me I already know the answer!

[Danny Steyn]

Spent many hours on the iRacing over the Christmas weekend. Ran many laps of Nurburgring Nordschleife in the HPD-ACR, and by the third day I was finally ran 6 laps within 4 seconds of each other from 6:39 – 6:43. It’s a lot of track to learn, and I can see why it attracts so many to its myriads of turns, straights, undulations, climbs, descents, carousels, jumps and more. Absolutely captivating track.

 

Only real bad thing is that if you screw up a turn, it takes another 6 – 7 minutes before you get to try it again, if you can remember which turn it was. Even worse, when I started out it took me about 5 attempts before I could run an entire lap without doing so much damage that I had to take a reset!!!!

[Danny Steyn]

last night i renewed my i racing.... Bought several tracks that i did not have.. I tried an mx5 car at Homestead and crashed about 6-7 times and never made more than 1/3 a lap.. never completed 3 laps and shut it back off

 

First time I have touched since about 2010.. I'm sure it is just the wheel or the computer

 

Stick with it Jim, it will come to you. See it as a new challenge!

[Danny Steyn]

One of the tips that I forgot to mention is as follows

 

When you are running a session and you nail down a really good lap, just before you QUIT the session, go to the LAPS tab at the bottom, identify which lap it was, and choose the next fastest lap

 

Then use the video replay function to see what made that lap better than the other lap. I will replay the two laps several times, using different camera angles to see where I was getting on the brakes and how hard I was braking, where I was apexing, and where I was getting to WOT.

 

In terms of camera angles I find Chase, Rear Chase, Cockpit and Front to be the most helpful. The pedals icon at the left of the video controls will show you exactly where you get to the brakes and exactly where you get to WOT.

 

I make notes of my braking points, apex and track out, as well as my speed at a specific reference on the track for my next session. If my next session is within the same day, I am generally able to start the session at very close to the best lap time where I left off the session before. 

[Danny Steyn]

HAPPY NEW YEAR SM and SIM RACERS!

 

 

[granracing]

I've tried playing iRacing in the past, and echo the experiences of Jim and some others. Even at tracks I know very well, I can't seem to complete a lap. I've found it to be extremely frustrating. Yet, this thread has me curious to look into it again especially given how little track time I get.

 

I find myself to be someone who drives very much by feel, which is probably why my favorite racing conditions by far is in the rain. I wonder if especially because of this, a sim such as iRacing would be even more difficult for me to get accustomed to? (And enjoy?)

[Danny Steyn]

I've tried playing iRacing in the past, and echo the experiences of Jim and some others. Even at tracks I know very well, I can't seem to complete a lap. I've found it to be extremely frustrating. Yet, this thread has me curious to look into it again especially given how little track time I get.

 

I find myself to be someone who drives very much by feel, which is probably why my favorite racing conditions by far is in the rain. I wonder if especially because of this, a sim such as iRacing would be even more difficult for me to get accustomed to? (And enjoy?)

 

Dave - as you know I LOVE the rain. I am steer with the throttle more than with the wheel, both in the dry and in the wet. And all of it is done by seat-of-the-pants feel. Cool, so you and I both get great feedback from our butt in the seat.

 

Sim racing gives you ZERO butt in the seat feedback. Just accept this. Do not bemoan it. There are plenty more feedback cues in the real world, so now we have to tune in other parts of our body to get our feedback. In the case of sim racing, you now have to listen way more closely to the sounds that are coming from the tires in the braking zones and through the turns, and you have to become way more sensitive to the feedback the wheel is giving you. Once you let go of the need for seat of the pants feedback and start getting in tune with the other forms of feedback, then it all starts to work.

 

Just imagine you lost your sight. I know you wouldn't sit at home whining about how much easier it was to get around when your eyes worked, you would start working at developing your other senses to recover your mobility. 

 

For me it took some time to start cueing on the feedback the sim was giving me. Now it is 2nd nature. Just treat it as another challenge. This is advice coming from one who loves to hang out the tail in the rain!

[Danny Steyn]

Another real life racing lesson the iracing sim taught me, is how to left foot brake.

 

I didn't come up through karts. I started diving with manual gearboxes and my left foot was trained for 40 years to do nothing but depress the clutch. So I have always been a right foot braker, and only used my dumb left clutch foot  to tap my brakes to overcome pad knockback coming into a braking zone. There was no way I had enough sensitivity in my left foot to perform any kind of brake modulation. It was like a dumb giant club foot stabbing at a rock, pretty much with disastrous results. I even tried practicing my left foot braking in my daily driver Miata on the streets and apart from scaring myself, I am sure that I scared many a motorist with unexpected emergency stops!!

 

But racing the sim cars in iracing with sequential WOT shifters, you give up way too much time doing throttle and braking with the right foot, and besides your left foot goes to sleep. So you start out trying left foot braking, and sure you crash your brains out, but as you work at it, you start to develop sensitivity in your left foot. You start to feel the brake pedal pressure, you hear the tire noise, you make slight adjustments, and soon you are braking as well, if not better, with your left foot than you used to do with your right foot.

 

I am still not a left foot braker on the track. I primarily brake with my right foot, but on those turns without a downshift where i just need to slow down or keep a little weight on the front tires to keep it close to the apex, I now have the ability to use my left foot, with my right foot ready poised on the throttle to add more juice.

[Jamz14]

Something to consider:

 

Some are having trouble seeing the value in sim racing. Mainly because they are struggling with the learning curve in my opinion. Just like a newbie driver (newbie real world driver), you wouldn't expect them to hit the track and get even within 15 seconds of your best lap without spinning or an off or some kind of drama. And this is what you guys are experiencing in the sim world. And it is probably happening to you at an even greater degree because you are experienced real world racers and trying to do the same things you do in the real world in the sim world straight out of the chute. But imagine if a newbie racer hit the track with your sector times and brake points and turn in points in mind. That newbie would be in the wall on lap one. Just like what is happening to you guys in the sim. Danny is absolutely correct. Give it time and don't give up. It will come.

 

But the real question is the results. People are asking is sim racing valuable and can it translate to the track in some way? The answer to that question has to be a yes. It has been pointed out that the sim racers don't have any skin in the game and therefore they shouldn't be winning the shootout compared to guys like Drennan. Ok, the assumption here then is that the sim racers are not going to the track and getting the experience. If all that is true, and in consideration of my first paragraph; if sim racing doesn't translate to the track, how else would you explain Glenn Mcgee running lap times at a track he has never been to very close to Drennan's times? How else do you explain the huge success of the GT academy drivers at the track?

 

Sim racing has benefits. It isn't the end all and be all, but nor is any singular training method. It is just another tool to bring some small benefit to those that are willing to put in the effort. No different to setup. Some drivers don't want to pay the price for the benefit that doing setups before every race brings. Others are willing to pay the huge price (time) in doing setups for the small increase in performance it brings over their competitors. And those like Danny want to do everything they can to win regardless if it brings a small benefit or a large benefit. And in my opinion that is what sets different racers apart from each other. That and money. Some racers what to do everything too but have to make cost benefit decisions on what to bring and what to do. IMO the cost benefit from sim racing is something just about every racer can afford to do. If not, racing is going to be a very short adventure for that racer.

[MotoFusi]

I've spent the last few sessions on IRacing concentrating on trail braking. I drove the Acura at Mid O last night and realized that driving the MX-5 I might have been a little to "on-off switch" with the throttle. LOL