42 replies to this topic

[Keith Andrews]

FWIW the white RX7 did not miss a shift he was going off of what the white Global Cup Car was doing in front of him.  He didn't have anyone on radios.  

 

Here's a view from behind.  

 

  

 

Almost looks like the Caddy didn't get a good start. 

 

As for fault?  The yellow RX7 earned a lot of the blame.  The white RX7 didn't make wild moves and held his line.  What more do we want from people on the start?  The Miata rear view camera car also got lucky.  Absolutely no reason to go into the grass to pass on the start of a 90 minute enduro.  

 

 

Joe Cooley,

 

Not sure what you mean by lucky.  On a start where the car in front of you does not go what should the cars behind him do, just wait for him to accelerate?  Maybe his car has lost the transmission.  I don't know. Should they just wait and bottle things up, or wait to be hit from behind because they don't want to pass the car in front of them at the start of a race?  Is this an unwritten rule I've missed? I made a clean pass that did not contribute to this mess what so ever.  Explain to me what I should have done.

[Joe Cooley]

Joe Cool,

 

Not sure what you mean by lucky.  On a start where the car in front of you does not go what should the cars behind him do, just wait for him to accelerate?  Maybe his car has lost the transmission.  I don't know. Should they just wait and bottle things up, or wait to be hit from behind because they don't want to pass the car in front of them at the start of a race?  Is this an unwritten rule I've missed? I made a clean pass that did not contribute to this mess what so ever.  Explain to me what I should have done.

Lucky in the sense that many times when cars come back on to course there they bounce a bit on the transition and the contact that occurred between the yellow and white RX7s could have easily been you and the white RX7.  

 

I know it sucks to get bottled up on a start but doesn't going into the grass violate the "Drivers are required to follow the pavement or marked course, and may not gain an advantage from an off-course excursion "?  You weren't going off course to avoid issues, you went off course to get around the guy in front of you who didn't have as good of a start (no radios I was told)  I'm not saying you are a dirty racer a horrible person or anything.   Just saying that there wasn't room to pass the RX7 on the outside and stay on the pavement.  Earlier mentions in the post about going two off were from people who got squeezed off at apex, not driving two wheels off to go around.  I think that is a key difference when determining when two wheels off is warranted .  

[Keith Andrews]

Lucky in the sense that many times when cars come back on to course there they bounce a bit on the transition and the contact that occurred between the yellow and white RX7s could have easily been you and the white RX7.  

 

I know it sucks to get bottled up on a start but doesn't going into the grass violate the "Drivers are required to follow the pavement or marked course, and may not gain an advantage from an off-course excursion "?  You weren't going off course to avoid issues, you went off course to get around the guy in front of you who didn't have as good of a start (no radios I was told)  I'm not saying you are a dirty racer a horrible person or anything.   Just saying that there wasn't room to pass the RX7 on the outside and stay on the pavement.  Earlier mentions in the post about going two off were from people who got squeezed off at apex, not driving two wheels off to go around.  I think that is a key difference when determining when two wheels off is warranted .  

 

Joe Cooley,

 

I'm guessing you don't race based on your post.

 

The car in front of me did not go at the start of a race. 

 

In this situation going two off, was to avoid a car.

 

Are you an SCCA official? 

[Joe Cooley]

Joe Cool,

 

I'm guessing you don't race based on your post.

 

The car in front of me did not go at the start of a race. 

 

In this situation going two off, was to avoid a car.

 

Are you an SCCA official? 

I was in that race until engine harness went too far south and miss got too bad.  Got bottled up by a car in front of me not going during the second ECR.  Could have gone two in the dirt to the outside.  Wasn't worth it.  Just waited and passed him a couple of turns later.  

[Keith Andrews]

I was in that race until engine harness went too far south and miss got too bad.  Got bottled up by a car in front of me not going during the second ECR.  Could have gone two in the dirt to the outside.  Wasn't worth it.  Just waited and passed him a couple of turns later.  

 

Ok

 

Topher's video shows me making a very clean pass of the RX7.   I was racing a bunch of other SM cars.

  

I don't know but I'm guessing the idiots you're defending were racing each other and they never made it to the start finish line. 

 

There is a huge difference in what I did and what happened behind me.  Do you recognize that?

[Joe Cooley]

Ok

 

Topher's video shows me making a very clean pass of the RX7.   I was racing a bunch of other SM cars.

  

I don't know but I'm guessing the idiots you're defending were racing each other and they never made it to the start finish line. 

 

There is a huge difference in what I did and what happened behind me.  Do recognize that?

 

Who am I defending?  

 

The White RX7 who didn't accelerate fast enough but held a nice steady line on a start instead of darting left or right?  Sorry but I can't see anything he really did that wrong.  It sure looks like he got held up by the cup car and didn't want to dart around because he was already bottled up.  He didn't miss a shift as others have said.  That would have happened a bit after the green flag waved, not right when it waved.  Yeah I'm defending that guy a little bit.  I like people who don't do unpredictable stuff when things don't go as planned.  Pretty sure everyone else would like that too.    

 

I am definitely not defending the yellow RX7 that went two off and then when he came back on made contact with the RX7.  I said he earned the blame for that incident.  I would have dinged him if I were the steward.

 

All I said in the first post was you were lucky and I implied that going two off on a start isn't a great idea.  To expand on that when you came back on from two off there was no-one to your right and you were able to get back on.  The 'huge difference' is that you were 'lucky' that no-one was right beside you when you came back on course because of how things sorted out. 

 

I'm not saying I've never made suspect decisions on course, especially when looking at them in hindsight.  Never said you were a cheap or dirty racer.  

 

It was the beginning of a 90 minute race for a 10 dollar trophy.  Do you understand that?  So far you've called people idiots and made fun of my name by calling me Joe Cool.  Then pulled the 'are you even a racer' comment.  

[Keith Andrews]

Who am I defending?  

 

The White RX7 who didn't accelerate fast enough but held a nice steady line on a start instead of darting left or right?  Sorry but I can't see anything he really did that wrong.  It sure looks like he got held up by the cup car and didn't want to dart around because he was already bottled up.  He didn't miss a shift as others have said.  That would have happened a bit after the green flag waved, not right when it waved.  Yeah I'm defending that guy a little bit.  I like people who don't do unpredictable stuff when things don't go as planned.  Pretty sure everyone else would like that too.    

 

I am definitely not defending the yellow RX7 that went two off and then when he came back on made contact with the RX7.  I said he earned the blame for that incident.  I would have dinged him if I were the steward.

 

All I said in the first post was you were lucky and I implied that going two off on a start isn't a great idea.  To expand on that when you came back on from two off there was no-one to your right and you were able to get back on.  The 'huge difference' is that you were 'lucky' that no-one was right beside you when you came back on course because of how things sorted out. 

 

I'm not saying I've never made suspect decisions on course, especially when looking at them in hindsight.  Never said you were a cheap or dirty racer.  

 

It was the beginning of a 90 minute race for a 10 dollar trophy.  Do you understand that?  So far you've called people idiots and made fun of my name by calling me Joe Cool.  Then pulled the 'are you even a racer' comment.  

 

Sorry, regarding your name, I do not know you or recognize your name from our race.  I thought it was an internet name.  I know most of the SM guys.

 

I would call the RX7 drivers idiots for causing a pile up.  No apologies for that. They both acted without regard to their actions.

 

I can assure you when I came back on track, it was not lucky.  I came back on track when there was ample room and contact was not even close to being an issue.

[MPR22]

 

  

 

 

On another note does it bother anyone that the starter is still casually waiving the green flag as cars are piling up right in front of him.  That should have been pulled at the first contact, instead, its nothing to see here please keep going as hard as you can..

[Tom Sager]

On another note does it bother anyone that the starter is still casually waiving the green flag as cars are piling up right in front of him.  That should have been pulled at the first contact, instead, its nothing to see here please keep going as hard as you can..

Good grief that is an f'ed up start and yeah what is the starter looking at?

[FTodaro]

It depends on what happened after the video ends.

 

A few years back at Mid O, we were starting a race in the wet, when that happens most pole sitters take the outside vs inside of Turn One as there is no grip on the inside when wet.

 

The starter did not get the memo that the pole took the outside.

 

So i was P2 but on the inside and of course the pole sitter was ahead of me at the start as he should be, they waived us off 2 times and the guy on the loud speaker was calling us every name in the book for jumping the start 2 x.

 

Its a volunteer army and Stuff happens. I find it hard to be to critical.

[MPR22]

It depends on what happened after the video ends.

 

A few years back at Mid O, we were starting a race in the wet, when that happens most pole sitters take the outside vs inside of Turn One as there is no grip on the inside when wet.

 

The starter did not get the memo that the pole took the outside.

 

So i was P2 but on the inside and of course the pole sitter was ahead of me at the start as he should be, they waived us off 2 times and the guy on the loud speaker was calling us every name in the book for jumping the start 2 x.

 

Its a volunteer army and Stuff happens. I find it hard to be to critical.

FYI the outside of turn 1 at VIR in the rain is not where you want to be as pole sitter.  Found that out the hard way at last years NASA Champs.  Nobody would give me any advice and I had not turned a single lap at the track before that weekend much less any rain laps.  Took a gamble that the rain line would be outside and that would be an emphatic no.  I started braking well before the inside pole and I still went off of the end of the track without slowing down.   

[Rob Burgoon]

I think the lesson to take from this is if you ever find a car alongside you that you're not passing that has tires in the dirt, you should run them completely off immediately since they have no rights whatsoever.

[Richard Astacio]

Another View

 

https://youtu.be/zy3mNZywYvQ

[Eric Orton]

No gloves?

[Bench Racer]

^ Did someone forget his driving gloves?

 

Eric, ya beet me to it.

[MPR22]

So in three videos we see 3 different things the stewards should have acted on but did not.

[Richard Astacio]

^ Did someone forget his driving gloves?

 

Eric, ya beet me to it.

 Lol, you want the truth!!! 

  

 After lunch my stomach was unsettled and I was in the bathroom when I overheard  load speaker that we were under 5 minutes. I rushed back to my trailer and jumped in the car and went to line up. 

Once I was lined up I realized I left my gloves in the trailer drying after the enduro the gloves were a bit wet. I was alone that weekend so I had no one to go back for me. 

 

I actually rolled up my sleeves and covered up my hands as best as possible, once I was out I was praying I did not get black flagged! 

[MPR22]

Lol, you want the truth!!! 
  
 After lunch my stomach was unsettled and I was in the bathroom when I overheard  load speaker that we were under 5 minutes. I rushed back to my trailer and jumped in the car and went to line up. 
Once I was lined up I realized I left my gloves in the trailer drying after the enduro the gloves were a bit wet. I was alone that weekend so I had no one to go back for me. 
 
I actually rolled up my sleeves and covered up my hands as best as possible, once I was out I was praying I did not get black flagged!

Been there, now keep my old set of gloves in glove box just in case I forget. Those glove boxes are handy, gloves, sun glasses, log book, extra patches for sanctioning body, stickers.... Must have 4 lbs in there.

[CruzanTom]

On another note does it bother anyone that the starter is still casually waiving the green flag as cars are piling up right in front of him.  That should have been pulled at the first contact, instead, its nothing to see here please keep going as hard as you can..

 

When the Stewards made their ruling I asked what the Starter reported. The Stewards told me that the Starter claimed that he didn't see anything about the wreck.         

 

Topher, I'm not appealing. I am spending plenty to get my car fixed and missing the Road Atlanta Majors because of this foolishness. I'm not throwing away another $175.

 

Tom

[CruzanTom]

When the Stewards made their ruling I asked what the Starter reported. The Stewards told me that the Starter claimed that he didn't see anything about the wreck.         

 

Topher, I'm not appealing. I am spending plenty to get my car fixed and missing the Road Atlanta Majors because of this foolishness. I'm not throwing away another $175.

 

Tom

 

I changed my mind and decided to appeal based upon the many calls and comments I received. I'll post the results of the Appeal when it is completed.

 

Tom