35 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

The following is posted for member input. Please send a letter supporting Number 1, no adjustable shocks in T4. T4 is supposed to be the most affordable class in SCCA, allowing $6000 adjustable Penskes is not what this class is supposed to be. The reason this is even an issue is because people who cheated all last season and at the Runoffs with adjustable shocks and then removed the knobs while on track and claimed them to be "non adjustable" dont want to lose their expensive shocks. VERY SAD. To make matters worse, committee members were doing this. Adjustable shocks penalizes those that followed the rules. In the end all it does is raise the cost to compete, FWIW I finished P2 at the Runoffs with untouched shocks as delivered from billstein. 

 

If you run T4, plan on crossing over in T4 or any interest in the class, please send in a letter supporting option 1, no adjustable shocks of any kind in T4.

click the link below and take 15 seconds and send in a letter.

https://www.crbscca.com/

 

Thanks

Jim

 

 

 

 

T4 1. #20561 (Michael Sullivan) T-4 Shock Clarification Currently in T4, adjustable shocks are not permitted. The Club Racing Board is seeking your feedback on the following for T4: 1. Any non-adjustable, unmodified, unaltered shock absorber is allowed. Unmodified non-adjustable shocks can serve no other purpose but to damp motion. Adjustable shocks that are retrofitted into non-adjustable apperance is prohibited. Removing adjusters or knobs from adjustable shocks is prohibited and does not constitute a non-adjustable shock. Commercial part numbers for non-adjustable shocks must be visible and un-altered. The shock must be installed in the original mounting locations. Remote shocks are not permitted. Threaded shock bodies or adjusters may be used. 2. Adjustable shocks are permitted. Please provide feedback on which of the two rule proposals you agree with for T4 through the CRB letter system at crbscca. com.

[Bench Racer]

Check!!!

[davew]

Letter sent, option #1. I also used the same "off the shelf", non-adjustable Bilsteins in both my cars. Which are for sale!!!!!!

[Rob Burgoon]

Oh horseshit.  Non adjustable shocks just means a collection of revalved shocks in the trailer, and a bunch of labor to R/R trackside.  If you care about that class, write a letter in favor of adjustable shocks and contain shock cost another way.

[Johnny D]

Oh horseshit.  Non adjustable shocks just means a collection of revalved shocks in the trailer, and a bunch of labor to R/R trackside.  If you care about that class, write a letter in favor of adjustable shocks and contain shock cost another way.

 

[Jim Drago]

Oh horseshit.  Non adjustable shocks just means a collection of revalved shocks in the trailer, and a bunch of labor to R/R trackside.  If you care about that class, write a letter in favor of adjustable shocks and contain shock cost another way.

Oh its nice when you think you have all the answers you arew welcome to pull mine at any time next year and I'll wager 20:1 on whatever dollar amount you care to lose.

 

Jim 

[BNaumann]

Non adjustable shocks just means a collection of revalved shocks in the trailer, and a bunch of labor to R/R trackside.

 

So just like SM...

[Camaro67racer]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Jim. Letter sent to support option #1.

[J. Shultz]

I also bought the "off the shelf shocks" and ran them all year including the Runoffs.  Option 1 it is and letter sent, didn't finish quite as strong at the Runoffs as Mr. Drago but still respectable and legal.

[Rob Burgoon]

Oh its nice when you think you have all the answers you arew welcome to pull mine at any time next year and I'll wager 20:1 on whatever dollar amount you care to lose.

 

Jim 

 

I'm... not sure what you're trying to say here Jim.  I'm sure you run a legal set of shocks, I'm calling into question how many sets you'll have owned/revalved in the process of developing a T4 car (and worse, legally tuning it trackside)

[Jim Drago]

I'm... not sure what you're trying to say here Jim.  I'm sure you run a legal set of shocks, I'm calling into question how many sets you'll have owned/revalved in the process of developing a T4 car (and worse, legally tuning it trackside)

 

What I am saying is I am and will be running the shocks that I ran last year, as delivered from Bilstein. I wont have etra valved sets etc. I have heard that BS of people even in SM with 3-4 different sets of shocks and never seen it and I think it is a crock to be honest. It is far beyond what 99% of the people are willing to do in a race weekend.  If someone wants to do that.. have a party, they can do worse in 25 others areas just as easy. But allowing openly adjustable shocks in an entry class makes no sense. Allowing it because you think people could or might be cheating so all must do it is silly as well. Opening it up changes the pereived entrance cost and drives people away.  I'm willing to spend right there with the next guy, this wont hurt me, it will only help as I raced against adjustable and revalved shocks last year, but it is not good for the classs and does not make sense for this class.  

[J. Shultz]

Seems pretty clear to me, run the non adjustable shocks as is and you can be competitive while keeping the cost low.

[Rob Burgoon]

What I am saying is I am and will be running the shocks that I ran last year, as delivered from Bilstein. I wont have etra valved sets etc. I have heard that BS of people even in SM with 3-4 different sets of shocks and never seen it and I think it is a crock to be honest. It is far beyond what 99% of the people are willing to do in a race weekend.  If someone wants to do that.. have a party, they can do worse in 25 others areas just as easy. But allowing openly adjustable shocks in an entry class makes no sense. Allowing it because you think people could or might be cheating so all must do it is silly as well. Opening it up changes the pereived entrance cost and drives people away.  I'm willing to spend right there with the next guy, this wont hurt me, it will only help as I raced against adjustable and revalved shocks last year, but it is not good for the classs and does not make sense for this class.  

 

This has nothing to do with SM, and I have no dog in this fight.

 

I never said or implied anyone was cheating, nor do I want to defend those with the tortured interpretation of the rules.  I'm saying that a non-adjustable set of shocks are still "adjustable" when you own several sets of them and are willing to do work trackside.

 

Remember that RC car story you told us?  If and when your competitive spirit goes supernova in T4, you'll have multiple sets of shocks, one for bumpy, one set for rain, etc.

 

 

The dirt class I run has the same issue.  Non adjustable shocks are required, but serious teams bring several sets and an impact gun.  Up until recently quick change rear ends weren't allowed, but serious folks would have the crew change the 70lbs ford 9" hogshead in under an hour, and bring several of those to the track to have gear ratio choices.

 

You can say "hey Rob, nobody takes T4 that seriously, it doesn't matter", but I don't think I'm wrong either.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

The revolve bs is just that bs. In these shocks all that does is fudge up handling making the car undrivable with no feel to what the car is doing. Driven at least 4 different sets of these supposedly magic shocks and instantly go slower, I can pick one out now just bouncing your car.

I'm not a t4 guy but Rob your way off on this... Maybe in some really fancy car with different suspension and alot more money involved some revalve job might work but not with some Miata suspension that was designed for the road to start with.

[zoomzoom22]

The revolve bs is just that bs. In these shocks all that does is fudge up handling making the car undrivable with no feel to what the car is doing. Driven at least 4 different sets of these supposedly magic shocks and instantly go slower, I can pick one out now just bouncing your car.

I'm not a t4 guy but Rob your way off on this... Maybe in some really fancy car with different suspension and alot more money involved some revalve job might work but not with some Miata suspension that was designed for the road to start with.

 

Anyone can write a letter that is a member regardless of you are a T4 guy or not.

I wrote one no in favor of adjustable shocks, option #1 to clean up the cheater language.

[Rob Burgoon]

The revolve bs is just that bs. In these shocks all that does is fudge up handling making the car undrivable with no feel to what the car is doing. Driven at least 4 different sets of these supposedly magic shocks and instantly go slower, I can pick one out now just bouncing your car.

I'm not a t4 guy but Rob your way off on this... Maybe in some really fancy car with different suspension and alot more money involved some revalve job might work but not with some Miata suspension that was designed for the road to start with.

 

Kyle, are you seriously suggesting that changing shocks in a non-SM class is a waste of time?

[Jim Drago]

This has nothing to do with SM, and I have no dog in this fight.

 

I never said or implied anyone was cheating, nor do I want to defend those with the tortured interpretation of the rules.  I'm saying that a non-adjustable set of shocks are still "adjustable" when you own several sets of them and are willing to do work trackside.

 

Remember that RC car story you told us?  If and when your competitive spirit goes supernova in T4, you'll have multiple sets of shocks, one for bumpy, one set for rain, etc.

 

 

The dirt class I run has the same issue.  Non adjustable shocks are required, but serious teams bring several sets and an impact gun.  Up until recently quick change rear ends weren't allowed, but serious folks would have the crew change the 70lbs ford 9" hogshead in under an hour, and bring several of those to the track to have gear ratio choices.

 

You can say "hey Rob, nobody takes T4 that seriously, it doesn't matter", but I don't think I'm wrong either.

It would be similar to testing mulptiple exhaust, wheel sizes and hundreds of other things... All possible but rarely if ever seen. If someone chooses that route, than that is their perrogative. But to the 99%, who will never bother doing that, non adjustable shocks make more sense. Thats all I am saying. Yes I could do what you say buy absolutely have no intention to do so. The shocks on that car are twice the PITA change compared to even SM. each time required rescaling the car.

I do agree with time and budget revalved shocks will be faster especially if you have no spec to meet. However the minute someone buys a stock shock and protests your shocks.. you will be in trouble.

[Rob Burgoon]

However the minute someone buys a stock shock and protests your shocks.. you will be in trouble.

 

Ok, this is making more sense now.  The current rules being WIDE open on revalving was throwing me off.  But I suspect you'd still want a trailer full of Bilstein, monroe, blown out monroe, koni, to choose from that have different factory valving.  Also, what about all the cars that don't have a heavy aftermarket shock available?  You've just created an even more massive advantage to all cars that already have a strong aftermarket following.

 

Finally, if my name is Scott Tucker, what's to stop me from having my own custom shock manufactured?   Bespoke, but unmodified, unaltered. 

 

I think the guys with the adjustable are in the clear if they welded the adjuster into a single setting with the current rules.   I can see why you're writing letters, but I don't think this is a good idea at all.

[wheel]

Scott Tucker in T4.  Give me a break.  This is T4, not P1.  

[38bfast]

If I was racing T4 and the rule was non ajustables but any make brand model is open, trust me l would spend the time testing. There is a lot of advantage in shock tunes. It would also cost me way more in the long run over single adjustable with open valving.

Unless you have a spec valving for option 1 then it's a silly rule that will just drive up cost.

On the surface option 1 looks great but in the long run option 2 will be cheaper and even the playing field.

And Jim if you played the shock game rather than bolt on and run you would have won. You left a big part on the table.