148 replies to this topic

[DrDomm]

Right up until some dumb ass Spins and tries to show the world he is as fast as the leaders as being lapped with 2-3 laps to go and he breaks up the top 4 car pack and makes it a two car pack.... then spins again trying to follow p3 and p4 at the end of the backstraight.   With all due respect, if you are getting lapped at the runoffs, get out of the friggin way!  Take yourself out of the equation.

 

Yes, and that is a concern.  It should be addressed during the week.  Stop fighting for 65th when the leaders are coming by.  Thankfully the guys at the front never do anything silly.  

 

The pointy end guys in SM should be happy about this. Other classes not so much. If 100+ cars show up I bet that 72-car championship field is covered by 106%.

 

But this is one of my points...I've raced with most on the entry list...even the backmarkers are good.  I believe they will need to be about 5 sec. slower per lap to be caught.

[davew]

At the end of lap 1, I expect the back markers to be half a lap behind the leader. Based on number of cars and how slow the complex leading to the front straight is.

 

Assuming a 2 minute lap (will probably be faster) that puts the leaders 60 seconds to last place, which is only 12 laps at a 5 second differential.

[Danica Davison]

I have done the math and posted it on the 115% thread:

 

 

I do think the 115% is too much, especially for certain classes like SM or SRF/3. I think the way I would change it would be to factor in the duration of the race ... and then figure out how many laps it would take to finish the race without any driver being lapped.

Indy will have a track distance of 2.592 miles, and lets assume the pole sitter time runs 2:00 lap times, and it is going to be a 40 minute race (20 laps or 2,400 seconds).

If the 115% logic applied, that would be one lap in 138 seconds (2:18), which extended would be 2,760 seconds to complete the 20 laps. 2,760 seconds minus the 2,400 is 360 second difference (6 minutes). Now when we limit the time to 40 minutes (2,400 seconds), and divide that by 138 seconds/lap, the slowest guy will only travel 17.39 laps. Which means the leader will lap him 2.60 times.

Now, the method I am proposing is going to assume that the leader passes the last place car at the same exact time he crosses the finish line, meaning the last place guy will finish 19 laps. 19 Laps divided by 2,400 seconds is 126.32 seconds/lap, or a 2:06.32 lap time. That is a difference of 6.32 seconds a lap, and 105.26% of the leader.

Note: This is assuming that the leader and the last place car run their same lap times every lap, which we know is not very possible. It isn't perfect, but this is a much closer method than what we currently have. Given this, if we have something like adding a buffer of an extra 20 seconds (1 second/lap) to make sure we don't lap anyone. Then, the threshold would be a 2:05.32 lap time. Which is 104.43%.



Sorry for all the math.

[Johnny D]

Should be fine, about the same as NASCAR at Bristol Motor Speedway.

 

J~

[Danica Davison]

But Wheeler is probably correct there will be half a lap spread on lap 1....so that changes the numbers a little bit.

[SaulSpeedwell]

Just put BMW badges on the cars, you'll be down to 72 by the time the test day is over.

[Bench Racer]

Should be fine, about the same as NASCAR at OLD Bristol Motor Speedway.

 

J~

Dude, y'all needed a little help. 

[Martinracing98]

The pointy end guys in SM should be happy about this. Other classes not so much. If 100+ cars show up I bet that 72-car championship field is covered by 106%.

That is what I have been thinking for both SRF3 and SM. I run at between 102 and 103% of leaders in SRF3 and from my experience at majors I will be 72 if about 115 sign up. So I expect at the existing sign up of 100 we will see 72nd at about 104 to 105%. This is perfect. Most of the big dirt races around the country the fastest guys make the main. The rest go home early, usually after a last chance race. No body complains because someone that was not fast enough or good enough dared to attempt to make the show. Same for lap traffic. Leaders never like them, but in most racing they are a just part of the deal. 

[Tom Sager]

Just put BMW badges on the cars, you'll be down to 72 by the time the test day is over.

That's mighty generous. Coming from you I thought you'd predict a number more like 24. 

[Bench Racer]

Just put BMW badges on the cars, you'll be down to 72 by the time the test day is over.

slightly. Was at the Loshak, Meller, Moser race shop Sat. Brand new Porsche 911 parked out side, hmmm, who belongs to that. Went inside just as a Dyno pull was completed which Loshak was doing on an F prod Honda. Looked around at the faces, yup the 911 would be Loshak's. Pulled my ignition keys from my pocket and dangled them, Loshak looked and threw the 911 fob to me, take it for a ride. Down a semi country street to the expressway doing a bit of safe driving while up/down shifting. On the expressway as I touched all three pedals down shifting the friking engine management system took over and downshift blipped. Did a red line third gear, WOW, what a car. firm quick steering, pedals excellent, short, close shift pattern and 420 HP. Once in a life time ride for me.   

[Steve Scheifler]

I hope nobody is offended, but I just can't get excited about Indy and don't understand why anyone considers it a bucket list track. It's not like you are running the oval at 200+, it is no longer even the F1 layout, and if the identical course was anywhere else I doubt that it would be considered a great driver's track. Those who have driven it, am I wrong?

I agree that such costly track rentals necessitate looser "qualifying" rules but also would like to see how much "discretionary " money is spent by the club on this event for travel expenses, entertaining, promotion, etc.

I can't see the club ever agreeing to a "nobody gets lapped" formula, which seems overkill. Around 107% sounds reasonable and hopefully would result in lapping a small number of reasonably competent and aware drivers spread out by late in the race. If you are getting lapped twice you probably don't belong there.

[Richard Astacio]

Stupid question, is the "last chance" after Thursday qualifier, is that going to be a race or a qualifying session? meaning 61-72 will be determined by finishing order and not lap times?

[LarryKing]

Slightly off topic: I made the most amazing chicken cordon bleu recipe last night. The trick is to pound the chicken really thin and I used prosciutto instead of regular ham. Dee-lish!!!

[Danica Davison]

Stupid question, is the "last chance" after Thursday qualifier, is that going to be a race or a qualifying session? meaning 61-72 will be determined by finishing order and not lap times?

 

 It will be a position race

[High Chair]

 It will be a position race

Damn John a race you might win..

[Danica Davison]

Damn John a race you might win..

 

hahaha let's be honest here ... I can't win shit. I don't even think I can win a qualifying race. But hey, that's okay. 12th place in that race will still get me in the big show ... and if I am that slow ... I may just have to fall back to the leaders and make it interesting

[Brandon]

Speaking as the guy who was the last running car at Mid-O last year, this is exactly what I did. I followed everything I tell our driving school students when they're new to this sport.

 

Kept them in my mirrors (didn't ignore/lose sight of them), stayed on-line, remained predictable and by the time they caught me it was coming out of the carousel and they passed me just as we went into T1.

 

Folks who watched the live stream commented that I got a lot of good "air time" leading up to when the leaders finally passed me but IMO I don't believe I influenced in any way the final result of the race.

 

It can be done but it takes conscious effort to decide to do it and then maintain it.

 

Jim is a little fired up about this, With a right to be fired up.

 

There is an art to being passed by significantly faster cars. Try to let (ease off the throttle if needed) the fast cars by on the straight away. Don't get yourself in their race. Stay predictable. Stay within your talent level. Don't spin or make any unusual changes in driving style.

 

It can be a wonderfull thing, when a slow driver is friends with the fast guys.

 

[Jim Drago]

I hope nobody is offended, but I just can't get excited about Indy and don't understand why anyone considers it a bucket list track. It's not like you are running the oval at 200+, it is no longer even the F1 layout, and if the identical course was anywhere else I doubt that it would be considered a great driver's track. Those who have driven it, am I wrong?

I agree that such costly track rentals necessitate looser "qualifying" rules but also would like to see how much "discretionary " money is spent by the club on this event for travel expenses, entertaining, promotion, etc.

I can't see the club ever agreeing to a "nobody gets lapped" formula, which seems overkill. Around 107% sounds reasonable and hopefully would result in lapping a small number of reasonably competent and aware drivers spread out by late in the race. If you are getting lapped twice you probably don't belong there.

I dont think most under say 35 have the same opinion as those 40 +  and long time Indy 500 fans. I don't think there is any bigger fan than me in that regard. But with that being said.  I agree with you. The entire 'it's Indy" blanket enthusiasm for this event is lost on me, but we seem to be in the minority.  The fact that it is Indy does nothing for me. I agree with what you put in your post. My excitement is because it is the runoffs ( and its not Mid Ohio ) .. Nothing to do with being at Indy.     Perhaps when we get there and walk down gasoline alley I might feel differently, but I doubt it

[Jim Drago]

General comment from most likely before many were involved in SCCA racing. There was a time when the Runoffs were for what was called National license holders and Regional license holders raced the ARRC. IIRC, no one who raced the current year Runoffs was allowed to race the ARRC. 4 Regional races got you a National license, but qualifying for the Runoffs was a tad bit tougher. Yes, and then track costs went spiraling to the sky and Runoffs requirements fell. Here we are, about everyone may easily qualify for the Runoffs. Got to pay the bills.

 

Jim, I'm sure you'll admit, sometimes stuff happens and pointy end dudes spin and wipe out other pointy end cars.

 

I have done and seen many front runners make mistakes and do dumb things.. It happens. No one is immune.  My major complaint was regarding cars who INTENTIONALLY race the leaders when getting lapped after they ruined their race by spinning( twice).  My point is there should be a courtesy. This is the National Championship. If for any reason you are getting lapped, you should do EVERYTHING in your power not to have ANY effect on the leaders race or influence who wins the race.  What sometimes lappers do not understand is allowing one or two cars pass, but not the entire pack is not something you should do.  If a pack of 3-6 cars is coming, you should let all through even if it means lifting and moving over. You should not let them through 1 by 1 if it can be avoided. 

 

Jim 

[Bench Racer]

^ Agree.

 

sort of. Will there be a kiss the brick ceremony???